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Also, I've noticed that playing with a band in the live environment helps me memorize the songs faster than just practicing over and over at home.
The real environment opens up your "issues", on one hand, but, on the other hand, your brain tends to memorize and learn (solidly) from those mistakes
Sounds like you could go with these three things next:
Learn the Nashville number system. (Easy once you get used to it) you can then chart in any key.
Learn the circle of filths. It’s makes thinking about keys easier.
Look on YouTube for the James Jamerson Igor Frankenstein exercise. Its lines up really well with playing jazz lines in any position. He did love jazz after all.
Learn the Nashville number system. (Easy once you get used to it) you can then chart in any key.
Learn the circle of filths. It’s makes thinking about keys easier.
Look on YouTube for the James Jamerson Igor Frankenstein exercise. Its lines up really well with playing jazz lines in any position. He did love jazz after all.
You know what really IS important? Not memorizing parts off records. TIME. No one really cares if you play exactly what Joe Doakes played on such and such a record, heck even if you play some wrong notes it's not that big a deal. But you'd better make darn sure that each note is played WHEN it should be with the right attack and duration. If you're not already doing so, practice with a metronome, pretty much constantly.
What annoys me the most when I'm not playing bass is those players who don't just PLAY the damn note at the right time, but let the notes kind of ooze out into the atmosphere, so no one can really tell where the beat is. If you can't hack that complicated signature line at tempo, and have it nailed, simplify it so you CAN.
What annoys me the most when I'm not playing bass is those players who don't just PLAY the damn note at the right time, but let the notes kind of ooze out into the atmosphere, so no one can really tell where the beat is. If you can't hack that complicated signature line at tempo, and have it nailed, simplify it so you CAN.
Honestly for me it's just repetition. I play stuff till I'm blue in the face and I'm barely even thinking about what I'm playing. We have 70 some odd songs we can pull out at a moments notice and most of them are pure muscle memory. And the little flourishes our band does just become part of that memory. But I get there by playing it a gazillion times both myself and with the band. Then I can focus on stage presence and having the tightest performance possible, and also throw in bits of uniqueness to the parts that work well, if indicated.
And it all starts with slowing it way down, mapping out structure, and learning each part slowly until I couldn't forget it if I wanted to.
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If you’re reading a written composition or a score, or working with a producer in a studio, then you’re going to have to take some direction. If you’re writing music, or creating originals with others, you have a lot more latitude. Pop, Rock, Soul, and Jazz and Blues, you’re probably working from a recording, and the bass line should resemble what’s been recorded. If you can’t use your ear and pick out the bass line on a recording and at least come close to it, then yeah, you’re probably not ready.
Totally different disciplines and an interesting topic.
When you’re in a cover band, the purpose is to play an evening of songs that your audience knows and loves. If you see them singing along and dancing, you’re doing it right. That requires diligent adherence to tone, arrangement, feel, and the precise identifying aspects of the instrument parts. (People will debate here that it’s cooler to “do your own thing” with covers, but let’s assume your venue manager/employer wants you to play songs his customers know).
Jazz gigs are the opposite. Smaller audience pool, but these people want to experience what your band can do creatively with a basic concept. They want to experience a conversation within the music that is interesting and innovative to them. Nobody wants to come to a jazz set and hear “Blue Train” played note-for-note the way Trane played it. Even he played it differently every time.
I in fact played a few party rock cover band gigs some years ago in Denver with a guy sitting in on guitar who is a well-known jazz player there. He was not good in this gig. He played everything a little differently than it was on the recording - for example the Neal Schon riff near the beginning of “Don’t Stop Believing” which is a certain thing played a certain way - and the result was that the whole tune sounded like we didn’t exactly know it. Hard to explain but didn’t work.
I sub a lot because I don’t have enough time to commit to one band’s whole calendar. By result I do see various bands’ books and there is a degree of overlap. There might be a dozen to twenty songs that most busy cover bands play. “Play That Funky Music,” “Uptown Funk,” “Sweet Caroline” might be a few of them. It helps to have that vocabulary coming in to each gig but I have to be careful because every band plays arrangements that are a little different.
My respect goes to the jazz players who have the whole Real Book in their heads. They can step onto a stage to sit in; the bandleader calls something obscure like “Witch Doctor” and it’s no issue. I never played enough pure jazz gigs to develop that muscle.
When you’re in a cover band, the purpose is to play an evening of songs that your audience knows and loves. If you see them singing along and dancing, you’re doing it right. That requires diligent adherence to tone, arrangement, feel, and the precise identifying aspects of the instrument parts. (People will debate here that it’s cooler to “do your own thing” with covers, but let’s assume your venue manager/employer wants you to play songs his customers know).
Jazz gigs are the opposite. Smaller audience pool, but these people want to experience what your band can do creatively with a basic concept. They want to experience a conversation within the music that is interesting and innovative to them. Nobody wants to come to a jazz set and hear “Blue Train” played note-for-note the way Trane played it. Even he played it differently every time.
I in fact played a few party rock cover band gigs some years ago in Denver with a guy sitting in on guitar who is a well-known jazz player there. He was not good in this gig. He played everything a little differently than it was on the recording - for example the Neal Schon riff near the beginning of “Don’t Stop Believing” which is a certain thing played a certain way - and the result was that the whole tune sounded like we didn’t exactly know it. Hard to explain but didn’t work.
I sub a lot because I don’t have enough time to commit to one band’s whole calendar. By result I do see various bands’ books and there is a degree of overlap. There might be a dozen to twenty songs that most busy cover bands play. “Play That Funky Music,” “Uptown Funk,” “Sweet Caroline” might be a few of them. It helps to have that vocabulary coming in to each gig but I have to be careful because every band plays arrangements that are a little different.
My respect goes to the jazz players who have the whole Real Book in their heads. They can step onto a stage to sit in; the bandleader calls something obscure like “Witch Doctor” and it’s no issue. I never played enough pure jazz gigs to develop that muscle.
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Why are you so worried? You can do a lot of things than many cannot. Do you actually want to play rock/pop covers? You don't need to be able to do music in every possible way.
I don't play bass in bars, but I did play guitar a long time ago, and I pretty much always played covers. I transcribed songs by ear note-by-note, faking few notes when I really could not hear exactly (especially in fast solos). Chords were usually impossible for me to understand exactly in which shape and where on the neck were played, but as long as the chord was correct I didn't stress over it. That's how I built my repertoire in cover bands. I wouldn't call it "ready to go" because in a different band I would typically want to play songs I didn't play in the previous. I also generally despised playing bar standards, almost as much as I despised listening to others playing said bar standards. Now with age I am more tolerant and I would even play those, but I never understood the culture of wanting to have a bag full of ready songs (and always the same). I prefer having the skills to learn ANY song given enough time to prepare.
there's like 3 rock or pop grooves that work on everything. the eighth note driving thing, ala U2, Lemmy, etc. Just play the root with eighth notes, most songs are 3-4 chords at most, maybe a bridge is 2 more chords. very simple. root whole notes/half notes for a ballad type tune, use your jazz passing tones sparingly. and the last i call the "bummmmm bum bum", it's basically a dotted quarter note, eighth note, quarter note rhythm just on the roots. when you play it it makes that sound i said, it's on everything.
as far as having an issue transposing?? dude it's 3-4 chords, just move everything up the same amount of steps, after one time through the progression you won't forget it. you learned the hardest type of music first, this is all about simplicity and space.
as far as having an issue transposing?? dude it's 3-4 chords, just move everything up the same amount of steps, after one time through the progression you won't forget it. you learned the hardest type of music first, this is all about simplicity and space.
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Glad you mentioned the Nashville number system. I'm reading up on it and it seems like a really useful thing.
I know I've seen at least one "bass player wanted" ad in my area that mentioned the Nashville system.
I wouldn't say I've mastered the circle of fifths, but I'm working on it.
and thanks for the exercise tip, always looking for new stuff to try.
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This I agree with. That same cover band I mentioned above with the jazz guy on guitar - that band uses all IEMs and has backing tracks. There’s a click and the entire arrangement is completely inflexible, lest we get away from the format programmed into the backing material. Every tune is exactly the same length, every night.
It’s a little clinical. I’m all for a good vamp for a minute or two so the singer can be playful with a fun girl dancing in the audience, or something. Or if the sax player is killing a solo and everyone is loving it, he should get another chorus or two.
Maybe your just not built to play in a cover band 
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I learned most covers pretty close to the original. I did not necessarily strive to play exactly like the recording but close enough. IMHO requirements include learning the feel, learning any iconic aspect of the bass melody, learning the form, and learning the harmonic progression. How the band will start and stop the song are also important things to learn.
My goal was to have at least 6 hours of music memorized. I did not find this particularly hard for covers. I struggle to memorize jazz standards well enough to play without a lead sheet. This is because of the way I learn the chord progression. Basically I learn to hear/anticipate the next chord in my minds ear. This work for me with covers because the chord structure is usually simple and the bass is more consistent and typically focuses mostly on the root.
Jazz standards tend to use a much more complex and difficult harmonic structure, and most songs have at least one deceptive chord change that tends to cause me to lose my place. This is partly because walking bass focuses more on the upper chord structure than covers. My ear gets pulled to the upper chord structure or possibly even altered extensions, causing me lose track of the root movement. Also jazz is more complex in that good players tend to throw in chord substitutions and play melodic intervals that are "outside." I am okay at faking it, but I do not consider myself an authentic jazzer.
My sense is many jazz greats think in numbers rather than simply anticipating the sound of the next chord in their mind. I have not been able to figure out and implement a number system on my own, and I did not work very often with anyone who could or would provide the necessary mentorship. I also feel that using a number system draws on aptitudes where I may lack sufficient raw natural ability.
I don't claim to be the best coverband bassist, but I do feel that playing cover tunes from memory is a lot more in my wheelhouse than playing jazz standards from memory. Perhaps ironically, most of the time I spend on bass involves playing standards from my old Real Book.
I can play 12 bar blues and rhythm changes well enough. I don't necessarily know all of the chord subs, alternate changes, or turn-arounds, but I know a fair share.
.I learned most covers pretty close to the original. I did not necessarily strive to play exactly like the recording but close enough. IMHO requirements include learning the feel, learning any iconic aspect of the bass melody, learning the form, and learning the harmonic progression. How the band will start and stop the song are also important things to learn.
My goal was to have at least 6 hours of music memorized. I did not find this particularly hard for covers. I struggle to memorize jazz standards well enough to play without a lead sheet. This is because of the way I learn the chord progression. Basically I learn to hear/anticipate the next chord in my minds ear. This work for me with covers because the chord structure is usually simple and the bass is more consistent and typically focuses mostly on the root.
Jazz standards tend to use a much more complex and difficult harmonic structure, and most songs have at least one deceptive chord change that tends to cause me to lose my place. This is partly because walking bass focuses more on the upper chord structure than covers. My ear gets pulled to the upper chord structure or possibly even altered extensions, causing me lose track of the root movement. Also jazz is more complex in that good players tend to throw in chord substitutions and play melodic intervals that are "outside." I am okay at faking it, but I do not consider myself an authentic jazzer.
My sense is many jazz greats think in numbers rather than simply anticipating the sound of the next chord in their mind. I have not been able to figure out and implement a number system on my own, and I did not work very often with anyone who could or would provide the necessary mentorship. I also feel that using a number system draws on aptitudes where I may lack sufficient raw natural ability.
I don't claim to be the best coverband bassist, but I do feel that playing cover tunes from memory is a lot more in my wheelhouse than playing jazz standards from memory. Perhaps ironically, most of the time I spend on bass involves playing standards from my old Real Book.
I can play 12 bar blues and rhythm changes well enough. I don't necessarily know all of the chord subs, alternate changes, or turn-arounds, but I know a fair share.
D
That does sound pretty inflexible, which I would think could be dangerous. What happens if one of the backing tracks breaks? Because we all know that computers cooperate 100%, 100% of the time. I don't like the idea of being that dependent on a canned routine. That's what I was trying to get at in my first post. I don't want to deal with someone who's going to be upset if I left out one sixteenth note here or there, because "that's how it is on the record."
Also, thanks for getting it. I never said I was opposed to following an established template for a given song. What I have little patience for is, someone who is going to get upset because we did an extra chorus, because "that's not how it is on the record." Maybe nobody is actually that nitpicky in real life. I hope not.
It amuses me that some took this to mean "you don't want to play anything that resembles the recorded version of the song." Again, never said that. Clearly, there is a more or less established bassline for a lot of popular songs. Not a problem. If anything, it helps, because then I don't have to invent my own bassline from scratch.
It's not that I "can't" learn a canned bassline, it's that I am skeptical of going through a memorized routine blindly, without any harmonic reference. That seems like a fragile approach.
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I wanna jump in a say if you mean Muddy Waters, Howlin Wolf type of blues yes. Those basslines' are pretty much just copying the rhythm guitar part or some are their own but it is a basic pattern, Blues has many patterns do not be afraid to play those patterns following along to a key, you have to get your scales down pretty much. You will hear lots of pattern repeats and different sounds to pattern, for example Crosscut Saw by Albert king Bassline is know as Rumba blues. You can use that pattern in any key pretty much you will hear it in many different blues songs.
Some songs will sound not the same but one thing cool about the blues imo is that you can use for example the bassline pattern for Killin Floor Blues for any blue song, is the song going to have a different sound? For sure but that is what is fun. True hardcore blues is about making a song your own but giving respect to those greats before you. Or you can go the Kimbrough route and just be your own bad@$$ thing.
Anyway, I understand how you feel, maybe try some lessons with a bass teacher or at least someone within theory to help you work on band works, also I would be honest with a band you struggle with those things, I find if you are a serious band or even for fun they will help you with charts etc. Also I think there isn't anything wrong with changing a bassline if you aren't re-selling it as the original and if you are a original band that does unique covers nothing wrong with as long as respect to the original artist is given, look at Love Buzz by Nirvana amazing cover.
Best of luck friend!
