Double Bass Improvising on maiden voyage

[Basscat125]

Hey guys I recently uploaded this video for the Facebook group jam of the week. It's of me playing a chorus of maiden voyage. I thought I'd post I three to get some advice and critique,hopefully stuff that will help me to bring my level of improvisation forward and my technique.
Here it is(cover your ears :

 

[Don Kasper]

Basscat125-
Here is a post of mine from a while ago regarding "Maiden Voyage":

Who....., and Chuck,

I'd like to add to the conversation, noting that, ( when considering the D7(9)(13)sus chord), the Aminor7 is the "Dorian" Minor form of Aminor7.
The complete arpeggio, based on the A Dorian scale, then, is : A, C, E, G, B, D, F#,(A) with a "D" in the bass.

I hear that this chord DOES contain a "major 3rd"( F#) in the complete arpeggio ( when considering it as a "Xdominant7 " chord) - contrary to what both Mr. Kernfeld and Mr. Pellitier-Bacquaert have stated.
On "Maiden Voyage", for example, check out the use of the Major 3rd, F#, (on the D9sus) @ 4:12 in the trumpet solo...and the Major 3, A natural,( from C Dorian), on F9sus@ 4:19 in the piano, answering the trumpet...
Also, at 4:28 ( D9sus), in the piano solo - diatonic 3rds, using the A Dorian Minor ( containing F#)...
There is almost no utilization of the "Minor3rd" on a "X7sus" chord. ( During the piano solo, @4:48, there is a passing b3, but I think HH is voicing something other than an F9sus chord):




Thanks for your time and interest.

 

[Basscat125]

thanks iona bass- good to know this is definetely some intresting and useful information! ill keep it in mind when i improv on this tune again.! :-D

 

[Sam Sherry]

You've got some nice ideas and seem poised to make progress.

My two cents: Much of your solo is chopped-up to the point of being 'breathless.' Spend the next year listening to tenor players until you hear like a tenor player.

Start by getting all the way inside George Coleman's solo on the original "Maiden Voyage." It's a classic, a real lightening-strike for him, and there's a lot to learn from it.

Take your time, keep it up and report back. BEST, SAM

 

[Basscat125]

thanks for the tips Sam! im studying Sony rollins at the moment. but i will definitely check out g.c. on maiden voyage and his other stuff aswell.

 

[Robert Strickland]

Good advice from SAm. Studying horn players is always useful. Agree on the good ideas, and the choppiness. When I first started improvising, I tended to move "chord to chord", rather than playing a melodic line over "passages" using the idea of key centers. I'm trying to keep that in mind now with every solo.

Also, as recently as the other day, Sam gave me some really good advice that I've been mindful of in my practicing, and will be mindful of during my gig tomorrow night. Has to do with taking the last three notes of a phrase you play, and making them the first three notes of the next phrase. Really provides flow and connectivity. Here's the thread: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/soloing-in-jazz.1080917/page-2#post-15985594

Keep it up!

 

[Basscat125]

cool thanks everyone for the great advice i will definitely use that three note idea as well! thanks for that Sam and ropepuller ! back to the shed for some practice!
:-D

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

You've got some nice rhythmic ideas going there,and a nice energy behind what you are playing. I have two suggestions:
- Play the exact same thing you played, but at the end of each phrase sustain the last note and make it sing until the next phrase begins instead of clipping it into a staccato articulation.
- The sus chords are Dominant sus chords, so just leave the "sus" part to the chordal players and play from a dominant set of notes. If/when your ears tell you to treat the major 3rd of each "7sus" tonality differently because the 3rd is suspended in the piano part, then follow your ears. But the minor 3rds sound out of place to me for sure.

 

[sean_on_bass]

You've got some nice ideas and seem poised to make progress.

My two cents: Much of your solo is chopped-up to the point of being 'breathless.' Spend the next year listening to tenor players until you hear like a tenor player.

Start by getting all the way inside George Coleman's solo on the original "Maiden Voyage." It's a classic, a real lightening-strike for him, and there's a lot to learn from it.

Take your time, keep it up and report back. BEST, SAM

Also for phrasing...sing the notes! You will have to take breathes, giving nice natural phrasing.

 

[Basscat125]

Thanks everyone this is being taken on boad and I'll be working will all this intensely for the next 3months.. Maybe I'll post a video on this thn to make a comparison?!
Thanks again!

 

[Robert Strickland]

Thanks everyone this is being taken on boad and I'll be working will all this intensely for the next 3months.. Maybe I'll post a video on this thn to make a comparison?!
Thanks again!

Yes...do that! LOVE to see progress.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

A few comments.
1) Don't be afraid to hold the note down and sustain it longer. The way you end most of your phrases it's almost staccato-like. It gets this choppy feel. Pay attention to not only the tone you're getting but also the sound you're putting out. I prefer a smooth and satiny sound like many horn players get.
2) Just as it is it with the left hand, don't make it a habit to let your hands lift away from the string so far. Your hands should always be ready to play the next notes that may come at any time. Just as it is to keep your left hand fingers close to the string as much as possible, you should avoid letting your right hand drop away.

 

[sean_on_bass]

To backup what hdiddy mentioned, make the notes sing and sustain more often. Getting a decent vibrato while bowing really helped with my pizz soloing as well. Try to get a pretty vibrato sustaining a bowed note, and carry that over to pizz. Think of the "vocal" like qualities a fretless stringed instrument is capable of and grasp onto that!

 

[Huy Nguyen]

I think he simply has to hear it in his head. And the best way to do that is to not just transcribe, but also listen to horn players and hear how much care they put into each note. It's more than just sounding, but there's an "emotional" follow through. It's more than just casting a noise into the air, it's also by staying with it until it's time to play the next note.

I think this also goes for playing spaces. Just because there are no notes in the air, it doesn't mean that there's nothing there. The space should be there for a reason and is an audible contrast between something else going on in the moment or something that just happened.

 

[MR PC]

Listening to horn players for phrasing is a fine thing for sure, that's the catch all reco you'll get these days at schools or on the internet when you don't have your bass soloing together. But you aren't a horn player, you are a bass player. You've got to speak from the heart as a bassist, the foundation of the ensemble. imo. You want to sound like a horn player, play the friggin' horn. Sure, the phrasing in your clip is choppy, there could be a lot of reasons for that. One is that you aren't getting a great tone, your fundamental is weak. The notes sound like they are coming out of a blender, all jumbled overtone wise. Imitating horn solos won't fix that, it's going to make the situation worse. Seems like you have enough chops now to let the music speak through you...I'd recommend relaxing more...just think, if someone was speaking to you the way your clips sounds, you might think they were really uptight or using too may stimulants. You probably would want to get away from a person who was talking to you that way. Do you feel that way inside? i doubt it. When you solo, you've got to make people want to hear want you are trying to say. You have to hustle, If you want to be a great bass soloist, be heard as a bassist singing beautifully, listen to the greats. Go to Blanton, Braud, Brown, Oscar Pettiford, ect. It isn't easy. But you can do it. Don't listen to horn players. Listen to singers.

 

[Basscat125]

Listening to horn players for phrasing is a fine thing for sure, that's the catch all reco you'll get these days at schools or on the internet when you don't have your bass soloing together. But you aren't a horn player, you are a bass player. You've got to speak from the heart as a bassist, the foundation of the ensemble. imo. You want to sound like a horn player, play the friggin' horn. Sure, the phrasing in your clip is choppy, there could be a lot of reasons for that. One is that you aren't getting a great tone, your fundamental is weak. The notes sound like they are coming out of a blender, all jumbled overtone wise. Imitating horn solos won't fix that, it's going to make the situation worse. Seems like you have enough chops now to let the music speak through you...I'd recommend relaxing more...just think, if someone was speaking to you the way your clips sounds, you might think they were really uptight or using too may stimulants. You probably would want to get away from a person who was talking to you that way. Do you feel that way inside? i doubt it. When you solo, you've got to make people want to hear want you are trying to say. You have to hustle, If you want to be a great bass soloist, be heard as a bassist singing beautifully, listen to the greats. Go to Blanton, Braud, Brown, Oscar Pettiford, ect. It isn't easy. But you can do it. Don't listen to horn players. Listen to singers.

I'm not arguing but just curious as to why you'd recommend listening to singers but not horn players?

Thanks?
Basscat

 

[MR PC]

I'm not arguing but just curious as to why you'd recommend listening to singers but not horn players?

Thanks?
Basscat

 

[MR PC]

You should listen to what moves you. It's your call..

 

[bassmastan]

That sounds really good! Great job!

Something I learned from Joe Lovano that has helped me with my soloing was play as much as you can breathe. I fee like youre not taking enough time to let your music breathe, if you think about inhaling and exhaling, you dont stop to think about in or out, those moments where you end a phrase and clip your notes makes it sound like you're hesitating to breathe. Its a good concept to think about, and helps to bring emotion into music. When we improvise we tell a story, and in some stories we have times that are sad, our breathing changes, when were surprised or scared our breathing changes, it can help make a solo sound more natural. On that note, don't play more than you can breathe, strategic use of space is amazing. Read this and you'll see what I mean:

When we read a run on sentence that never ends or has a comma or a period or semi colon and has too much going on and has the word "and" in there 30 times and rambles about something totally useless and seems to go on without ever ending and is annoying to read and say can be hard to read and sing and speak or play *out of breath*.

You get the idea, its something that will help in playing in general, from bowings, to phrasings, to rhythms and more.

In conclusion; breathe, tell a story, and use emotion

 

[Basscat125]

thanks Mr Pc wise words! And thanks bassmastan for that humorous and insightful post!