The flat keys keep horns in their happy place. You may find yourself in the company of horns and piano, no guitarist. You will be well served to transpose to any key.
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In all keys?
- Thread starter stratovani
- Start date
I had a mental block on this for a while. I just "accepted it" and learned them. Sometimes you may not completely understand the theory of something but that doesn't mean that the knowledge isn't useful.
I wouldn't think about practicing any song in all keys unless I was doing it as an exercise, myself. But I do want to know how to play in all keys, so that I know what to do if a key change is called for, or if a song comes up that's in an unusual key.
There are multiple ways to accomplish this, depending on what kind of learner you are, but I wouldn't think playing every song you know in every possible key is a very effective way to learn.
So if that's what you're suggesting, I agree with that much. If you're just saying you'll never be called on to play in certain keys, I'm pretty sure you will find that's not correct as you move forward. But you'll learn it when you need to.
Smooth_bass88
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- Oct 31, 2006
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IME it’s about the singers. I’ve worked with guest singers, sometimes a female covering a male’s song, and the key goes up a 4th or 5th. Or sometimes we play a song a few times and the singer is strained, so we drop it a step. Sometimes it’s a blues so it’s easy peasy. But we had to drop some tough songs like Don’t worry bout a thing (Eb > Db) and Josie (E > D) ... talk about some brain benders! 
Learning something in 12 keys isn't going to hurt unless it detracts from learning something else. Yes, most rock tunes are in one of 5 or even 3 keys, so if that's you want to play it's probably better to learn three different licks in four keys than one lick in 12 keys. Do what works for what you play, don't be afraid of learning something new, keep your goals in mind.
Honestly I can't imagine anyone practicing Mustang Sally in all keys. Someone with my skillset would play a song like Mustang Sally entirely by ear. I don't generally even think about the notes, I just think about the sounds and my hands know what to do. I don't think I would have much trouble playing Mustang Sally in any key.
A more advanced player would use something like the Nashville number system. The idea is to hear a chord progression and analyze it using numbers. Over time you begin to recognize common chord patterns, so it becomes easier...I.E. you hear a pattern and you recognize it as the verse, chorus, or bridge of another song. All of the people I have known that used some sort of numbering system, seemed to simultaneously think in numbers and the chords the numbers represent. This may not be accurate, but they were all super knowledgeable about music theory, so as a minimum that could quickly transpose the number to chord notation.
My belief is you don't need to practice all tunes in all keys. If you can elevate yourself to the skill and knowledge level where you can analyze music and translate the chords into an easy to memorize number system, you just need to maintain proficiency in all keys, and also to maintain proficiency in using your harmonic numbering system.
Obviously you will want to practice a lot to maintain this level of proficiency and you will probably want to spent some extra time on the harder songs. You will probably actually want to work these in all keys. You will also need to regularly reinforce you memory of the harmonic structure of all the tunes you want to maintain, but I don't think that necessary means you need to play through the changes. Such a skilled player should be able to do this sort of work in their head.
I certainly wouldn't suggest learning any one song in all keys....... but playing songs you know in alternate keys occasionally will improve your knowledge and playing and allow you to jam with others with more confidence.
I've done a lot of playing with female vocalists over the years and have had to learn songs in keys other than the original all the time. Until around 12 months ago I would just learn songs in the key that the girls wanted to sing it in. Since then I've been playing with other people that do quite a few songs I have known for years, but they do them in very different keys. At first I'd just learn the song again in the new key but recently I've instead been learning songs in their chord tones (is that the right term?) so for instance with The Foo Fighters "Learn To Fly" in the verse i'm thinking 1 5m 4 instead of B F#m E.
This means I can then play it in any key with a minimum of thinking.
It's also had an added bonus of the fact that i'm "hearing" chord progressions and intervals a lot better and therefore I've found it so much easier to pick up songs. During lockdown i've been playing some random stuff on youtube, jamming along with them and with many of them i've gotten the progression sorted by the end of the first chorus.
I've done a lot of playing with female vocalists over the years and have had to learn songs in keys other than the original all the time. Until around 12 months ago I would just learn songs in the key that the girls wanted to sing it in. Since then I've been playing with other people that do quite a few songs I have known for years, but they do them in very different keys. At first I'd just learn the song again in the new key but recently I've instead been learning songs in their chord tones (is that the right term?) so for instance with The Foo Fighters "Learn To Fly" in the verse i'm thinking 1 5m 4 instead of B F#m E.
This means I can then play it in any key with a minimum of thinking.
It's also had an added bonus of the fact that i'm "hearing" chord progressions and intervals a lot better and therefore I've found it so much easier to pick up songs. During lockdown i've been playing some random stuff on youtube, jamming along with them and with many of them i've gotten the progression sorted by the end of the first chorus.
I don't know about great...... but you'll certainly become a better musician.
There's one song I do with a new singer that I have known and played for probably 20 years. Learned it originally on guitar in Am. Then learned it on bass in Cm to play it with my daughters. Then learned it in Am on the bass for this new singer....... who then proceeded to do it in Bbm. In Am it uses the open strings, particularly the E, quite a lot. I tried to do it in Bbm but it changed the groove too much so I simply put a capo on the first fret. Whatever works to serve the song!The obvious answer is sooooooooooo much more simple:
It is because of $#@%!#$ guitar players with capos and singers who want to be a 1/2 step off so it is easier for them! Put a capo on your bass and watch their reaction...
This.
When you have your reason, you'll do it. If not, don't worry about it, and keep rocking.
I hear this a lot from the "serious" jazzers. I think its hysterical because in no other genre would you be expected to know the same song in 11 other keys without forewarning. It just seems like gatekeeping and a waste of valuable practice time.
A nice practical joke that I like to play: Someone will call a tune, and in order to fill in dead air while the band members are flipping through their fake books, I will start playing the melody on my bass... but in some god awful key. When they realize what's happened... pandemonium. Naturally I only do this at really low-profile gigs, rehearsals, where people are ready for a little fun.
There are a couple of players who will follow me in any key. Now I know who knows tunes and who doesn't. Then they'll return the favor by pulling out a tune that I've never heard before.
I think there are a couple points to practicing in multiple keys. It gets you out of having "good" and "bad" keys. It forces you to really hear the music, and gets you more into playing what you hear in your head, as opposed to memorizing fingerings. Being tied to memorized fingerings is no different than being tied to a chart, or any other tool. It works well enough, but can ultimately be a hindrance. Once you break free from keys, then you automatically know a tune in all keys just by knowing it.
I was lucky to have started on classical music, during a time when teachers tried to cover all keys if possible. Not necessarily by playing a particular thing in every key, but mixing up the keys in exercises and assigned pieces.
How is it useful for rock music? Who knows. It's just fun.
There are a couple of players who will follow me in any key. Now I know who knows tunes and who doesn't. Then they'll return the favor by pulling out a tune that I've never heard before.
I think there are a couple points to practicing in multiple keys. It gets you out of having "good" and "bad" keys. It forces you to really hear the music, and gets you more into playing what you hear in your head, as opposed to memorizing fingerings. Being tied to memorized fingerings is no different than being tied to a chart, or any other tool. It works well enough, but can ultimately be a hindrance. Once you break free from keys, then you automatically know a tune in all keys just by knowing it.
I was lucky to have started on classical music, during a time when teachers tried to cover all keys if possible. Not necessarily by playing a particular thing in every key, but mixing up the keys in exercises and assigned pieces.
How is it useful for rock music? Who knows. It's just fun.
In my experience, when I hear an instructor suggests playing something in different keys, it is usually regarding an exercise, not a simple rock tune. Of course it doesn't make sense to play back in black in every key. It does make sense to play and learn arpeggios and chord sequences in different keys though, especially if you plan on doing any improvising or songwriting.
no one needs to practice mustang sally in every key, except those who can't play mustang sally in every key... and you don't need to have played/practiced mustang sally in every key to know whether you can do it...unless you don't know if you can do it, in which case: better do it.
This is a bigger deal for horn players. Those guys don't have the advantage of fretboard geometry that we have.
Their hands and fingers are pretty much in the same place all the time, so the finger position to play the root in Bb might be entirely different than what it would be to play the root in Ab.
For us, ignoring open strings, to play something in a different key we simply reposition our left hand to another place on the neck and do the same thing we did in the other key. For a horn player it would be an entirely different motion.
But, if practicing in 12 keys makes you practice more, that's good. Also, open strings are a thing and it's good to understand how to use them in various keys.
Their hands and fingers are pretty much in the same place all the time, so the finger position to play the root in Bb might be entirely different than what it would be to play the root in Ab.
For us, ignoring open strings, to play something in a different key we simply reposition our left hand to another place on the neck and do the same thing we did in the other key. For a horn player it would be an entirely different motion.
But, if practicing in 12 keys makes you practice more, that's good. Also, open strings are a thing and it's good to understand how to use them in various keys.
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If you can play diatonic modes up and down the neck in a few keys, their associated pentatonic variations in a few keys, and understand chord construction in a few keys, then you can pretty much do it in all keys
There are 15 commonly used major keys (and 15 commonly used minor keys). The feature they all share, is that they can be written without any double-sharps or double-flats in the key signature.
The key of A# hypothetically "exists" but isn't used in practice, because it would require a bunch of double-sharps, whereas the key of Bb is easy to read and write, requiring only 2 flats.
I'm not arguing you should learn every song in every key. But you should at least know what the 15 commonly-used keys are called so you can communicate with other musicians. Calling a song "in the key of A#" at a jam session will get you laughed at, in certain musical circles.
When I was a serious DB student I usually picked one key a day, and did all my ~1 hour daily technique exercises in that key. It felt more beneficial to get through all the exercises at the start of the day and train my ear to one key at a time than to take the time to do one thing in 24 keys. It also seemed more beneficial to hit the keys my solo and orchestra pieces were in more often - but try to get around to all the keys eventually.
Now that I do all pop/rock on BG, and have a lot less time, I basically do the same thing - pick a key a day, do as many different exercises as I can stand in that key, focus on the keys that are most useful, while promising the bass gods that I will play all the keys one day. So, to OP, and anyone else, I would suggest the same strategy.
Now that I do all pop/rock on BG, and have a lot less time, I basically do the same thing - pick a key a day, do as many different exercises as I can stand in that key, focus on the keys that are most useful, while promising the bass gods that I will play all the keys one day. So, to OP, and anyone else, I would suggest the same strategy.
Good point.
All Along the Watchtower is in C# minor when playing a Eb transposed guitar.
Jimi had a reason for that. It allowed him to use the low E on the guitar and bass tracks.. plus it was the relative minor of E Major which was very familiar territory.
Ive heard lame guitarists at jam sessions shy away from the original key cuz "it's too high to sing". Its because they are scared of C# minor.
