in defense of PJs

[JRA]

TL;DR at the bottom:

i made my first post in this thread over four years ago and i was tickled (scoffed?) at the idea of "hating" PJs. (they've been my choice for decades, and you must like them, too. )
Why do people hate PJ basses

since then, i've considered some of the 'whys and wherefores'. i think the two major variables involved are 1. pickup locations, and 2. expectations.

my current thinking , more or less:*
- if the P-pickup location is in leo's 'sweet spot' = P-bass tone + the advantage of a bridge pickup, to dial in, or not.
- most PJs (IME) locate the P-pup elsewhere: not in the sweet spot. some are close, but some aren't.
- when the P-pup is located elsewhere = no P-bass sound. neither good nor bad, objectively, just different than a P-bass.
- same is true of the J/bridge pickup: the location of the pup has meaning, but folks who expect "a J" might be disappointed.
- "close" can be good enough for some, but it's never the "cigar."
- some hear "PJ" and without thinking: they expect a P-bass (using the neck pup only), and a J (using the bridge pup only).
- so, two groups: those who can get a P-bass and/or a J-bass sound from a PJ, and those who cannot.
- in the "cannot" group = those who are disappointed by expectations, and those who are not.

i've never expected a P-bass/J-bass sound from my PJs --- i've only ever expected a neck pickup sound, and a bridge pickup sound, and a sound(s) from blending the two. i love 'em for what they are, whether or not they sound like a P or a J.

others aren't as 'flexible' in their thinking and they can be disappointed: they expect something that isn't possible with their PJ. their pickups aren't located correctly to meet their 'rigid' expectations. they're disappointed because they didn't know/care about pup locations --- they picked up a shiny new object that just can't deliver what they expected and they poo poo the experience without knowing the real reason why they can't get what they want: "i thought i'd get the best of both, and it was neither!" their expectations were challenged and they lost!


and others are never disappointed with their PJs because they're getting even more than they expected: an entirely new/different sound (pickup locations are not in "sweet spots"), or, they get the joy/satisfaction of finding that their PJ delivers on the "P or J promise" --- the pickups are likely located in "sweet spots" and they can dial-in what they want --- with or without having to know about the location issue. whether or not they had any expectations = they won!


i'm in the latter group: i don't have P-bass/J-bass expectations** for my PJs = i don't care what a P-bass/J-bass sounds like when i'm playing any PJ --- Ps and Js are not a 'model' for me, just a vague reference. i want two pickups on my axes so i can dial-in something that will work on that gig at that moment. my PJs always deliver! do they sound like Ps or Js? maybe close (but no cigars). and FWIW: when i was having custom PJs built for myself i never once told the luthiers that i needed to get a P-bass sound and/or a J-bass sound. yet all of my PJs have been (are) the bomb...so there's that, lucky me!


and last: i'm really an advocate of two-pickup axes, no matter what the two pickups are. the PJ vs. P vs. J thing is just a way to engage 7ender fan boys/girls. those who deliberately choose anything else but fender = already know......something!

TL;DR: if you've been disappointed by a PJ = you didn't know enough and you expected too much without knowing. ***

thoughts? (also: feel free to post pics, from your stable, of your favorite PJ, or otherwise, your favorite two-pickup axes.)


* i call it "thinking" because that's what it feels like when i do it!

** disclosure: i have P-basses and a J-bass and they sound exactly like you'd expect: the Ps sound like a P, and the J sounds like a J!

*** or maybe you got a lemon!

 

[Hank Scorpio]

I think for me, my expectation of what a PJ could sound like is just never met - the bridge pickup seems overpowered by the Precision pickup, or like it's either on or off, or that it doesn't alter the sound in a way I find particularly usable.

Personally, I found my answer in a P/MM configuration. The bridge pickup is too far back to sound like a Ray, but it is beefy enough to keep pace with the P in parallel mode - and almost overwhelm it in series. I do have a singlecoil switching option in there to replicate a PJ, but I never really use it.

I tend to run it with a blend knob set about 75% towards the P, which adds enough bite and 'tightens' up the tone while still sounding like a Precision in the mix. YMMV etc, but for me, P/MM gives the sound that a PJ does in my head. Keep in mind I do play distorted, aggressive, fast music which no doubt plays a part in finding the bridge singlecoil a bit weedy.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

Thoughtful post, with which I agree. Pickup placement matters - a lot!

My first bass was a Gibson Grabber, with the sliding pickup. It only moves a couple of inches, but it makes a significant difference in tone when you move it. And my Aerodyne has its P pickup about 3/4 in closer to the neck than most Fender P basses, which is probably one of the reasons it is SO thunderous. (I also dropped some Geezers in there, which contribute to that great, deep, old school tone.) The bridge pickup adds some mids and fleshes out the tonal range beautifully. PJ heaven!

One variable that also matters: not all P pickups are equal, nor all Js. The range in quality of the pickups provides another variable that can account for some players’ opinions of the PJ. The stock pickups in that Aerodyne were OK, but the J was noisier and a little anemic compared to the Geezer replacement. They are better balanced now.

I do get great solo’d bridge pickup tones too, quite comparable to my Fender J. But blending the pickups is where it’s at for me tonally, and distinct from playing my J with the pickups blended.

Love me some PJs!

 

[FrenchBassQC]

I love P/J's myself... I have two of them. Voilà

 

[Altitude]

I came up in the 80s listening to all the funk players who were blowing up at that time. To my ears, P/J is the sound of 80s funk in a good way. I don't have one in the stable just now, but I've owned several and I am fond of them. I'm a Yamaha guy in particular.

 

[Plectrum72]

In defense of PJs? PJs need no defending. They are fookin' awesome!

 

[winston]

What, no "I sleep in the buff" poll option?

IMO P-Js often fall into the "neither fish nor fowl category" especially when the J is single coil.
I am typically not crazy about active EMGs but I think (especially with a good preamp) they lend themselves to excellent modern P-J tone...see Spectors, Mike Watt's '80s fIREHOSE Tele bass and Victor Wooten's Foderas.
Duff McKagan's grotty Guns & Roses tone is the epitome of passive P-J sound to my ears.

 

[westrock]

I like all of them

 

[MMiller28]

Yes, I like PJ.

 

[iiipopes]

Two items:

1) I'm not the biggest fan of P-pickups to start with, although I do appreciate some of the ergonomics of a P-bass.
2) It is difficult to find a passive J-bridge pickup that is both passive, has a contrasting tone, and enough output to match a typical P-pickup, due to the lesser string excursion near the bridge.

On my custom fanned-fret custom P-style bass, I solved both of these issues with narrowed string spacing at the bridge, light weight tuners, a Rickenbacker HB-1 humbucker mounted in the position of the D-G part of the P-pickup to get a little more definition, and a DiMarzio UltraJazz mounted between the 60's and 70's position to both contrast and compliment the Rick pickup. No, it is not a "pure" PJ tone. But it is its own voice which I have found versatile to provide the foundation in a range of ensembles. I would still play it as my #1 bass if my primary gig party band didn't need the 5th string for its repertoire.

Link:A Different Custom P-style Bass | TalkBass.com

 

[Killing Floor]

I approve.

 

[sikamikanico]

Reminds me of this old Mitch Hedberg joke "I played in a death metal band. People either loved us or they hated us... or they thought we were OK."

IMO/IME, PJs are great for P and bridge J sounds (soloed or favored). Blended sounds seem to be more of a hit-or-miss... Some work better than others. Blending seems to be a function of pickup locations/spacing and the orientation of the P pickup (reverse P working better). Matched pickups probably help too. But some people just love their non-reverse PJ blended, so to each their own

 

[Matt-bb]

Here is what I learned in my short bass playing (and bass buying) journey:

My first bass was a PJ (Ibby SR700), so I never had any P or J expectation.

While I initially started to play with both pickup dialed in, I quickly started loving the P soloed while I could never really figure out the J soloed. This did not change when I swapped out PUs and electronics, but when I started playing in bands I figured out that dialing in different amount of J helped me find a sound that worked best with the tune.

Then, I bought a Precision and a Jazz. I love them both, especially the J, but especially the P.
Still I could not not figure out the bridge PU soloed on my Jazz.

Next, I bought a Peavey Foundation (you guessed it, I love this one too), and on this one I could finally make that bridge pick-up work.

Back to P and PJs, with time I figured I much preferred my fender P sound to my PJ with P soled.

I start asking myself question and I take some measurements, I here is what I find:
- Ibby PJ neck pickup, and the Fender P neck pickup are at the same exact position, however the PJ has a ‘reverse’ P configuration.
- The bridge pickup in my PJ, Jazz, and Foundation are all at the same exact position.

I scrap my head and forget about it, untill a few days ago i had the revelation: for me is all about where/how I pluck the strings, and since I naturally orbitate toward using the pick-ups as reference points for my thumb, they make all the difference.

The reverse P led me to plucking the strings a couple cm back compared to the standard P. As soon as I adjust, there is that big bottom I love from my Precision.
Similarly, the Peavey Foundation pickups are bigger then standard J pu, so when I solo the bridge PU and go plucking near the bridge, I am actually closer to the neck compared to my Jazz and PJ, which ultimately is what makes it work. As soon as I adjust, the bridge pickup on my Jazz and PJ both comes alive.

Long story short my PJ is identical in location to standard P and Js, and can indeed offer both performances altough with different flavours. I guess the moral of the story is that everything work, if you can make it work?

 

[JakobT]

If you expect a PJ to be either a P or a J, or both, you’re going to he disappointed. They’re their own thing.

 

[bigjames]

Personally, I love my PJ and sounds I can get out of it. Exactly what I need / want.

 

[Reese T Morin]

I used to never really care for PJ basses in any way (mostly because I was looking for J basses or Stingrays) until I finally got my dream bass (American standard Jag) It took some time to find out how it likes to be played and well, I changed the pickups and preamp in it because the ones that were stock didn't play well together at all IMO. I don't really have a "blend" option due to how the jags are made but most of the time I run it with both pickups fully on and in parallel (I removed the series option entirely). That with some flats in passive (most of the time) is really just on the money for me. I've found use for both pickups individually as it comes up but it is very situational.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

I approve.
View attachment 4905298

 

[sawzalot]

The PJ needs no defending. Countless classic designs are based on it, many mentioned before, but beyond the fenders I think of the Spector NS-2, Pedulla, etc. The key is to keep the P from overwhelming the J, but it can certainly be done and they sound great.

 

[bearhart74]

who cares.. play what ya want.

 

[squarepeg]

What, no "I sleep in the buff" poll option?

In summer I usually sleep in shorts and a t-shirt, but now I wear flannel PJs to bed to help keep warm.