in defense of PJs

[wintremute]

Thank you for the thread, but the mighty PJ does not need defending. It stands on its own with its power and versatility.


or...what he said:

The PJ needs no defending. Countless classic designs are based on it, many mentioned before, but beyond the fenders I think of the Spector NS-2, Pedulla, etc. The key is to keep the P from overwhelming the J, but it can certainly be done and they sound great.

 

[tb-player]

My very first-ever decent bass was a 1989 Fender Jazz Bass Special. It was Japanese made and had the standard P/J configuration. I didn't know anything about anything back then. But I did know it growled and had a killer slap sound. I wasn't worried about if it sounded like a P or a J. I just liked the way it sounded through my righteous Peavey combo amp. I hear that tone now, and it sounds like a warm hug to me.

I actually gave that bass away to a guy who needed one. Maybe someday I'll get another one, just to have. That would be a fun NBD.

 

[WI Short Scaler]

A well written defense for the PJ style.

But I didn't vote. I have nothing for/against them I just found something I like totally by accident and stayed with that style. Passive, one pup, Musicmaster and now Mustang basses.

Find your sound and rock it!

 

[80jazz]

I think for me, my expectation of what a PJ could sound like is just never met - the bridge pickup seems overpowered by the Precision pickup, or like it's either on or off, or that it doesn't alter the sound in a way I find particularly usable.

Personally, I found my answer in a P/MM configuration. The bridge pickup is too far back to sound like a Ray, but it is beefy enough to keep pace with the P in parallel mode - and almost overwhelm it in series. I do have a singlecoil switching option in there to replicate a PJ, but I never really use it.

I tend to run it with a blend knob set about 75% towards the P, which adds enough bite and 'tightens' up the tone while still sounding like a Precision in the mix. YMMV etc, but for me, P/MM gives the sound that a PJ does in my head. Keep in mind I do play distorted, aggressive, fast music which no doubt plays a part in finding the bridge singlecoil a bit weedy.

This post nails it for me.

The J seems to put a weird honk on the sound that the MM does a better job of.

 

[JRA]

What, no "I sleep in the buff" poll option?

i was naked when i made the poll...hope that counts for something (it's the thought that counts, right?)

 

[Ks68jazz]

I'm not a big fan of PJ's, and I've owned a few through the years both active and passive. The only one I really liked was the newer Fender Mustang. For some reason the pickups matched really well in that bass.
But I'm sure there's another one out there just waiting for me to buy!

 

[BioDriver]

I like PJs. I love PDC/PH/whatever you want to call it more.

 

[HeavyJazz]

I've found that the PJ configuration in particular, is a stellar recording bass. It's kind of one of those "If you can't get it to sound good, you probably suck" type of instruments. I have them in both the Sadowsky and Zon flavors - the Zon appearing as HBs but under the hood is actually a P and dual-rail J.

 

[roccobass]

Gawd, I hate the way may Tony Franklin is currently my favorite bass to play.

But seriously, I agree pickup placement is key. The J volume on this bass is satisfactory to me relative to that of the P. I didn't think I would like the 3 way switch, but I do.

 

[B-Mac]

TL;DR at the bottom:

i made my first post in this thread over four years ago and i was tickled (scoffed?) at the idea of "hating" PJs. (they've been my choice for decades, and you must like them, too. )
Why do people hate PJ basses

since then, i've considered some of the 'whys and wherefores'. i think the two major variables involved are 1. pickup locations, and 2. expectations.

my current thinking , more or less:*
- if the P-pickup location is in leo's 'sweet spot' = P-bass tone + the advantage of a bridge pickup, to dial in, or not.
- most PJs (IME) locate the P-pup elsewhere: not in the sweet spot. some are close, but some aren't.
- when the P-pup is located elsewhere = no P-bass sound. neither good nor bad, objectively, just different than a P-bass.
- same is true of the J/bridge pickup: the location of the pup has meaning, but folks who expect "a J" might be disappointed.
- "close" can be good enough for some, but it's never the "cigar."
- some hear "PJ" and without thinking: they expect a P-bass (using the neck pup only), and a J (using the bridge pup only).
- so, two groups: those who can get a P-bass and/or a J-bass sound from a PJ, and those who cannot.
- in the "cannot" group = those who are disappointed by expectations, and those who are not.

i've never expected a P-bass/J-bass sound from my PJs --- i've only ever expected a neck pickup sound, and a bridge pickup sound, and a sound(s) from blending the two. i love 'em for what they are, whether or not they sound like a P or a J.

others aren't as 'flexible' in their thinking and they can be disappointed: they expect something that isn't possible with their PJ. their pickups aren't located correctly to meet their 'rigid' expectations. they're disappointed because they didn't know/care about pup locations --- they picked up a shiny new object that just can't deliver what they expected and they poo poo the experience without knowing the real reason why they can't get what they want: "i thought i'd get the best of both, and it was neither!" their expectations were challenged and they lost!


and others are never disappointed with their PJs because they're getting even more than they expected: an entirely new/different sound (pickup locations are not in "sweet spots"), or, they get the joy/satisfaction of finding that their PJ delivers on the "P or J promise" --- the pickups are likely located in "sweet spots" and they can dial-in what they want --- with or without having to know about the location issue. whether or not they had any expectations = they won!


i'm in the latter group: i don't have P-bass/J-bass expectations** for my PJs = i don't care what a P-bass/J-bass sounds like when i'm playing any PJ --- Ps and Js are not a 'model' for me, just a vague reference. i want two pickups on my axes so i can dial-in something that will work on that gig at that moment. my PJs always deliver! do they sound like Ps or Js? maybe close (but no cigars). and FWIW: when i was having custom PJs built for myself i never once told the luthiers that i needed to get a P-bass sound and/or a J-bass sound. yet all of my PJs have been (are) the bomb...so there's that, lucky me!


and last: i'm really an advocate of two-pickup axes, no matter what the two pickups are. the PJ vs. P vs. J thing is just a way to engage 7ender fan boys/girls. those who deliberately choose anything else but fender = already know......something!

TL;DR: if you've been disappointed by a PJ = you didn't know enough and you expected too much without knowing. ***

thoughts? (also: feel free to post pics, from your stable, of your favorite PJ, or otherwise, your favorite two-pickup axes.)


* i call it "thinking" because that's what it feels like when i do it!

** disclosure: i have P-basses and a J-bass and they sound exactly like you'd expect: the Ps sound like a P, and the J sounds like a J!

*** or maybe you got a lemon!

Like 'em all. No sense quarantining myself to one type of bass or one type of sound. Just another 'flavor' to come back to.
Out of 119 (soon 120) basses 8 are P/J or P/J style passive and/or active.

Additionally, I never get hung up on making my basses sound like something else. I simply make them sound good to me. That may change when I switch to a different genre that requires something else.

P/J's are fine and as you point out not all have the P or the J pups always in the usual Fender sweet spots, which honestly makes for more variety.

I love steak and especially prime rib, but I would get sick of it if I ate it every night.

 

[badinage]

The only PJ I own was made in 1992, it's an active fretless Zion four string that was custom made for me and the PJ setup was Ken Hutton's personal suggestion to me when discussing the configuration. It made perfect sense to me in the "best of both..." sort of logic. While my Zion is a wonderful feeling and great looking instrument, the utility of the PJ setup was less-than magic. It was "different" to me at the time. No biggie, it is what it is.

Since then, any PJ I've played has also been not just non-magic, but actually a sonic yawner, and I always wondered why. I've seen some beautiful ones that really made me want to like them. TB gave me a plausible answer: Maybe that pickup combination doesn't have a naturally-good synergy, and as one TBer put it: 'in an attempt to be both it becomes neither'. I've read articles on how changing out caps and pots may bring the magic, but I figure why wouldn't they come that way, and was suspicious that maybe those that do it like the result mostly because they did it.

There is an old saying in the smoke-filled corridors of big-league Marketing Departments when discussing offerings that make wonderful sense on paper, is appreciated as an "easy sell", doesn't work very well in the real world, but most importantly is likely to open some fat wallets: "It's what every Dentist thinks he wants".

 

[scubaduba]

The Sadowsky P/J with hum cancelling J is the perfect P/J IMHO. The pickups are perfectly balanced and punchy, open, and huge as one should expect from a quality P/J setup.

 

[Isaac_James]

I own three basses, all PJ configuration. From right to left:

1) Fender Precision Special Edition - basically a P bass with a jazz neck and an extra bridge pickup. This one wears flatwounds, I use it almost exclusively as a P bass and I think it does it well. I don't dislike the sound of the bridge pickup mixed in, it's just not quite as good as my...

2) Yamaha BB735. My newest bass, only five string, and also my favorite now and the one I play most often. I find that mixing in the bridge pickup really helps with note definition on the B string. The bridge pickup is a little farther up towards the neck (you can sort of see in this picture, but it's a small difference) - I think this makes it sounds a lot better than the other J pickups. In 50/50 blend mode it's essentially a ballsier, nastier jazz bass. I love this thing.

3) Ibanez SR800. This one used to belong to my brother, I keep it around as a memento but seldom play it because I don't really like either of the pickups (these are the late 90s AFR ones that Ibanez used). Someday, when I have the time and money to spend on it, I'll probably upgrade at least the pickups and see what that does to it. It is a very comfy and lightweight bass to play, plenty of potential. Just needs better pickups to really sing.

I only ever play with just the neck pickup or with a neck/bridge blend. I've never liked the sound of the bridge pickup soloed (sorry Jaco).

 

[bobyoung53]

I like all of them
View attachment 4905268

Same here including P/J basses. For me they're P basses with an added bridge pickup for if I want a little more mids or top end which I usually do. I almost always have the split a little bit more dominant than the J pickup but keep it close in case I want more. I had another vol added to my TF fretless.

 

[musicman556]

I like all of them. Mix 'n match, grab 'n go!

PJ, MudP, J-P, J5-PMMan... whatever. They're all fun!

 

[Tom Bomb]

I got mine before the reality set in. Had to read a swath of threads to get up to speed. No sense in challenging physics — they is wot they is. But, I'm not fussed. In the end, depending, they is neat as. Count me in
​

 

[HardNHeavy]

like them, but barely use bridge pups. The white PJ with Barts get maybe 10-15% bridge volume depending. It's a really bright sounding set of pickups with tons of volume. The 2nd bass just looks perty. It sounds hollow with the bridge blended, dont use it,so its basically a p bass with 63' CS pups and some random mim j pup

 

[Nuage420]

TL;DR at the bottom:

i made my first post in this thread over four years ago and i was tickled (scoffed?) at the idea of "hating" PJs. (they've been my choice for decades, and you must like them, too. )
Why do people hate PJ basses

since then, i've considered some of the 'whys and wherefores'. i think the two major variables involved are 1. pickup locations, and 2. expectations.

my current thinking , more or less:*
- if the P-pickup location is in leo's 'sweet spot' = P-bass tone + the advantage of a bridge pickup, to dial in, or not.
- most PJs (IME) locate the P-pup elsewhere: not in the sweet spot. some are close, but some aren't.
- when the P-pup is located elsewhere = no P-bass sound. neither good nor bad, objectively, just different than a P-bass.
- same is true of the J/bridge pickup: the location of the pup has meaning, but folks who expect "a J" might be disappointed.
- "close" can be good enough for some, but it's never the "cigar."
- some hear "PJ" and without thinking: they expect a P-bass (using the neck pup only), and a J (using the bridge pup only).
- so, two groups: those who can get a P-bass and/or a J-bass sound from a PJ, and those who cannot.
- in the "cannot" group = those who are disappointed by expectations, and those who are not.

i've never expected a P-bass/J-bass sound from my PJs --- i've only ever expected a neck pickup sound, and a bridge pickup sound, and a sound(s) from blending the two. i love 'em for what they are, whether or not they sound like a P or a J.

others aren't as 'flexible' in their thinking and they can be disappointed: they expect something that isn't possible with their PJ. their pickups aren't located correctly to meet their 'rigid' expectations. they're disappointed because they didn't know/care about pup locations --- they picked up a shiny new object that just can't deliver what they expected and they poo poo the experience without knowing the real reason why they can't get what they want: "i thought i'd get the best of both, and it was neither!" their expectations were challenged and they lost!


and others are never disappointed with their PJs because they're getting even more than they expected: an entirely new/different sound (pickup locations are not in "sweet spots"), or, they get the joy/satisfaction of finding that their PJ delivers on the "P or J promise" --- the pickups are likely located in "sweet spots" and they can dial-in what they want --- with or without having to know about the location issue. whether or not they had any expectations = they won!


i'm in the latter group: i don't have P-bass/J-bass expectations** for my PJs = i don't care what a P-bass/J-bass sounds like when i'm playing any PJ --- Ps and Js are not a 'model' for me, just a vague reference. i want two pickups on my axes so i can dial-in something that will work on that gig at that moment. my PJs always deliver! do they sound like Ps or Js? maybe close (but no cigars). and FWIW: when i was having custom PJs built for myself i never once told the luthiers that i needed to get a P-bass sound and/or a J-bass sound. yet all of my PJs have been (are) the bomb...so there's that, lucky me!


and last: i'm really an advocate of two-pickup axes, no matter what the two pickups are. the PJ vs. P vs. J thing is just a way to engage 7ender fan boys/girls. those who deliberately choose anything else but fender = already know......something!

TL;DR: if you've been disappointed by a PJ = you didn't know enough and you expected too much without knowing. ***

thoughts? (also: feel free to post pics, from your stable, of your favorite PJ, or otherwise, your favorite two-pickup axes.)


* i call it "thinking" because that's what it feels like when i do it!

** disclosure: i have P-basses and a J-bass and they sound exactly like you'd expect: the Ps sound like a P, and the J sounds like a J!

*** or maybe you got a lemon!

That was a great read and I not only learned a few things but had more light shed on others. I like PJs and I like turtles.

 

[Joebone]

Reminds me of this old Mitch Hedberg joke "I played in a death metal band. People either loved us or they hated us... or they thought we were OK."

IMO/IME, PJs are great for P and bridge J sounds (soloed or favored). Blended sounds seem to be more of a hit-or-miss... Some work better than others. Blending seems to be a function of pickup locations/spacing and the orientation of the P pickup (reverse P working better). Matched pickups probably help too. But some people just love their non-reverse PJ blended, so to each their own

Yes on reverse-P. When I first owned my own bass (won a '73 P in a 1980 poker game, but that instrument was mostly under my bed for 20+ years, before I really started playing), the P placement bugged the living s#!t out of me - I thought that string-to-string tone would be far more uniform in a reverse P. Since then I've had old Yamaha BB2000 basses with reverse P, and love 'em. Whenever I see/hear someone playing a Spector and I dig the sound, it's inevitably their reverse-P/J rig. I now have a bass on order with L. Ellis Hahn, and it will be a Nordstrand reverse-P, along with a Fat Stack. On a five-string, I'm betting that Reverse-P will bring all that I really like about it, and also improve articulation on the B string.

 

[Commreman]

Here's my Frankenfender P/J - 2004 P body with an added J, Custom Shop neck with a tele headstock and 1.5" at the nut, passive EMG Geezers wired VVT, Reverse wind tuners with a custom Hipshot D tuner to match. Love this damn thing!