In Defense of Slapping

[MonkeyBass]

Not really. If you're backing a vocalist the point is to support the vocal. Not draw attention away from it. I never walk onstage with the intent to be the best bassist I can be. I want to be the best musician I can be, which means being a part of a whole. I still get to play lots of cool stuff, it's just that my perspective has changed.

Ok, I have to admit that my saying "which is kinda sad" was stemming from a past experience.

I joined a professional, touring-with-a-record-deal singer/songwriter band, like, 12 years ago, and when I first joined it was very blues/funk/New Orleans style music. Very fun, very hold-it-down-in-the-pocket sorta playing.

As time went on the singer/songwriter got more and more heart broken through bad deals and bad relationships so she started writing melancholy tunes. By the end of my time with her I was playing whole notes most of the night. Which is ok for a song or two but not all night.

One night at a gig she told me to turn down my amp. So I did. Then I was told to turn it down again. So I did. And again, and again... finally I turned it off. No one noticed. I quit that night.

So, I've been in a professional situation where I was told to not play flashy to the extent that I was told not to play at all. I've never had any interest in being a professional musician since.

Now I know that doesn't happen for everybody, and her behavior was very unprofessional, but it sure left a sour taste in my mouth. So whenever I hear someone say they won't play flashy for a "professional" gig that horrible time of playing no-groove whole notes for a depressed singer/songwriter comes flooding back to my memory.

VIVA LA SLAP!

 

[stratovani]

You're in a Tom Petty tribute band?

Yep.

 

[DWBass]

:scowl: at some of the comments here. Just remember.....YOUR situations, whether pro or weekend warrior type, is yours only! It does, in no way, dictate what's going on all over the world! I personally play what the music calls for. Many times it calls for slap bass. Many times not!

The biggest problem I have with this thread is that no matter the title (was supposed to be a "positive" slap thread) the cats who are anti still feel the need to declare their dislike, for the 100th time, for the style!

No matter! I will defend the style until I am no longer able!!

 

[Stranger Danger]

Yeah, and yet he slapped on some Tori Amos tunes. I'm sure the very idea of that gets the nay-sayers' panties in a bunch

My panties are just fine. I didn't say he couldn't do it. Of course he can and I'm sure he can do it better than anyone posting in this thread. He doesn't do it because he chooses not to.

The point I was making is that ignorant people can't separate the two (funk and slap). I'm disparaging the whole "hey man slappa da bass hahaha" crowd.

Additionally, just because GP slapped on a tori Amos album doesn't make him a slapper any more than I am a Missourian because I went to KC once. I'm sure Marcus Miller can play with a pick but no one would call him a pick player. He's a slapper.

Again the main problem is guys that use the style in songs that it doesn't belong in and they can't do it well either.

 

[DWBass]

Again the main problem is guys that use the style in songs that it doesn't belong in and they can't do it well either.

Obviously, those guys are NOT professional bass players playing in pro situations! Sure, there are plenty of hacks all over the world. Seems to me, the issue is with hacks and amateurs. What can you do other than complain about them?!?!

 

[fmoore200]

Yep.

Awesome!

 

[Jared Lash]

"Claudia Lewis" by M83:



JMJ is one of those dudes who's always playing just the right part. Pick and flatwounds or slap and pop, he's got it covered.

What funny about that particular track is that I believe it's the first time that Justin Meldal-Johnsen has recorded a slap bass part. Certainly the first time for a major label release anyway.

He's a guy who has often been on record as saying that slap bass is largely unmusical and that in his scene (L.A. based session work primarily) it will never get you hired.

And yet, it sounds phenomenal on that particular track to where I can't imagine the song without the slap bass. It was absolutely the right choice for that song. And that's the issue to me.

Whether it's guitar or bass, plenty of guys will take the technical aspects of things without bothering to take along the musicality. The guys at Guitar Center who sound like a popcorn bag in the microwave as they slap aren't really much different from the guitarists sweep picking arpeggios over and over or butchering "Eruption".

Technique is a wonderful thing. But taste is too. And the easiest way to meld the two is to ask yourself every time you slap, or choose flats, or palm mute, or use a pick on fresh rounds, or even kick on an envelope filter or fuzz pedal is if the choice you've made is improving the song in some way. If it is, then rock on.

 

[Kragnorak]

You may have a point here. Flea and Les Claypool were the bassists of the moment when I started. They definitely had an influence.

Those are two dangerous fellows and I was influenced by both. Here's why: Flea is NOT that good of a slapper. He's fast and what he does is awesome for his band, but I slap like he does and it's just bad technique. Check out the lesson he has on YouTube and you'll see that he's LITERALLY slapping the string and not getting very much tone out of it. Most good slappers are not actually attacking as hard but are getting more tone by hitting the string more parallel. I feel I need to go back to the drawing board on this one but it's tough: Flea's technique is what comes naturally when you're wearing a bass low and rocking out.

Les Claypool has ruined me with a very influential quote: "Compression is evil". So I never used compression. Now I'm wondering if I should. I can perfectly control my tone fingerstyle and can go from really warm to hard and growly, but I don't slap that much right now because I don't have as much control of tone and it's not balanced volume-wise with the fingerpicking. Maybe I should rethink the compression thing? What do you guys do to alter your tone if you switch back and forth within a song?

I personally never could master that Vic Wooten double thumb thing though.

Hey, maybe I should start hating on it.

I love Wooten, but he drives me crazy when he teaches that technique. He literally says "If you don't hit the string with your thumb on the way back up, it's a wasted opportunity." He says this quite seriously but the implication is "you just lost an opportunity to cram more notes in"! Well, I like cramming lotsa notes in so I practice this technique, but isn't it an odd assumption for a bass player that the GOAL is to cram a buttload of notes?

The other problem is that I try to get my notes to sound even with each other. So right now there is no opportunity whatsoever because I haven't even figured out how to make the thumb upstroke sound anything like the thumb downstroke. My current tremolo technique for 16ths is [ring-middle-index-indexUP] which for me is faster and cleaner than Wooten's [thumb-thumbUP-indexpop-middlepop]. But I still want to learn his because it's a more percussive variation and it's extremely frustrating.

 

[MonkeyBass]

Les Claypool has ruined me with a very influential quote: "Compression is evil". So I never used compression. Now I'm wondering if I should. I can perfectly control my tone fingerstyle and can go from really warm to hard and growly, but I don't slap that much right now because I don't have as much control of tone and it's not balanced volume-wise with the fingerpicking. Maybe I should rethink the compression thing? What do you guys do to alter your tone if you switch back and forth within a song?.

When did he say that?

Claypool used to use a dbx 160a and now uses api 7600. Claypool has always used compression to the best of my knowledge.

 

[bass12]

Those are two dangerous fellows and I was influenced by both. Here's why: Flea is NOT that good of a slapper. He's fast and what he does is awesome for his band, but I slap like he does and it's just bad technique. Check out the lesson he has on YouTube and you'll see that he's LITERALLY slapping the string and not getting very much tone out of it. Most good slappers are not actually attacking as hard but are getting more tone by hitting the string more parallel. I feel I need to go back to the drawing board on this one but it's tough: Flea's technique is what comes naturally when you're wearing a bass low and rocking out.

Les Claypool has ruined me with a very influential quote: "Compression is evil". So I never used compression. Now I'm wondering if I should. I can perfectly control my tone fingerstyle and can go from really warm to hard and growly, but I don't slap that much right now because I don't have as much control of tone and it's not balanced volume-wise with the fingerpicking. Maybe I should rethink the compression thing? What do you guys do to alter your tone if you switch back and forth within a song?




I love Wooten, but he drives me crazy when he teaches that technique. He literally says "If you don't hit the string with your thumb on the way back up, it's a wasted opportunity." He says this quite seriously but the implication is "you just lost an opportunity to cram more notes in"! Well, I like cramming lotsa notes in so I practice this technique, but isn't it an odd assumption for a bass player that the GOAL is to cram a buttload of notes?

I think you're misunderstanding Wooten when he suggests that an opportunity is being missed by not using an upstroke. His point is that, should you want to play a note in that place, by using an upstroke you are dispensing less energy than if you use two downstrokes.

 

[Kragnorak]

When did he say that?

Claypool used to use a dbx 160a and now uses api 7600. Claypool has always used compression to the best of my knowledge.

That makes perfect sense. It's the problem with interview transcripts (this quote probably came from a 90s Bass Player mag). The context was that engineers automatically love to throw a ton of compression onto a bass track, to the point that it sounds sterile and has little dynamic range. So the first thing Les learned to do was slap their eager little hands away. The 2nd thing he learned to do was control his own compression.

 

[MonkeyBass]

That makes perfect sense. It's the problem with interview transcripts (this quote probably came from a 90s Bass Player mag). The context was that engineers automatically love to throw a ton of compression onto a bass track, to the point that it sounds sterile and has little dynamic range. So the first thing Les learned to do was slap their eager little hands away. The 2nd thing he learned to do was control his own compression.

Yeah that makes sense. He definitely uses compression.

 

[Kragnorak]

I think you're misunderstanding Wooten when he suggests that an opportunity is being missed by not using an upstroke. His point is that, should you want to play a note in that place, by using an upstroke you are dispensing less energy than if you use two downstrokes.

Yes, the main point is efficiency, and I admit to being a bit tongue-in-cheek in my post. But there's something in the way he said the quote above in a live clinic that gave me that impression.

Remember, the context is hating on the double-thumb technique so I was being a bit silly. Certainly Wooten's playing could be construed both ways because he plays beautifully in the pocket and other times he crams a buttload of notes and many times he does both at once!

 

[Bassist4Eris]

Original poster here, checking in again. Every time I think this thread has died, it pops up again!

Keep an open mind, and just do what you enjoy and do what you are supposed to. The bass is a tool for expressing creativity, and like so many other things, there is more than one way to express creativity.

However, I will like to emphasize that this gigantic essay is just a single 17 year old's opinion.

You are quite wise for your age.

Those are two dangerous fellows and I was influenced by both. Here's why: Flea is NOT that good of a slapper. He's fast and what he does is awesome for his band, but I slap like he does and it's just bad technique. Check out the lesson he has on YouTube and you'll see that he's LITERALLY slapping the string and not getting very much tone out of it. Most good slappers are not actually attacking as hard but are getting more tone by hitting the string more parallel. I feel I need to go back to the drawing board on this one but it's tough: Flea's technique is what comes naturally when you're wearing a bass low and rocking out.

Yeah, I started Flea-style, with the thumb pointing down and the middle finger for pops. I'm not sure where I learned it, but we didn't have Youtube back then, so it wasn't there. But I think it may have been Alexis Sklarevski's "Slap Bass Program" video that straightened me out. I also had a method book by Jonas Hellborg, IIRC.

I remember reading an interview with Flea in Bass Player Magazine many years ago where he talked about how he lacked "economy of motion". Ironically, that comment influenced me to work on that.

And also, while you don't have to wear it right under your chin like some slappers do, slapping and a low-slung bass are not natural allies. And wearing the bass too low isn't good for your fretting-hand wrist, because it forces it into an angle.

But I'm probably on enough soapboxes right now.

Les Claypool has ruined me with a very influential quote: "Compression is evil". So I never used compression. Now I'm wondering if I should. I can perfectly control my tone fingerstyle and can go from really warm to hard and growly, but I don't slap that much right now because I don't have as much control of tone and it's not balanced volume-wise with the fingerpicking. Maybe I should rethink the compression thing? What do you guys do to alter your tone if you switch back and forth within a song?

I've never heard that quote. I use a Markbass Compressore, and I swear by the thing. And because this is Talkbass, I now have to point you to this excellent site for more info: http://www.ovnilab.com/ . (While I share everyone's enthusiam, I still find it a tad funny that the first reply in any compressor thread has a link to ovnilab.... but that just shows how valuable a resource it is.)

 

[irbass]

Slap It's the shine of the Bass. The soul of the bass.
Most of all can learn how to play bass, but just a few can do a good slap.
take years to clean the sound.

 

[SactoBass]

Yeah, your opinion carries no weight at all because you clearly have no idea what good rapping and good slap are. Go buy a CD or two and listen with an open mind instead of basing your opinion on some dude wanking off on a beat up P in the local Guitar Center.

Well, thank you good sir for your helpful suggestion. I appreciate you taking time to try and help me.

Allow me to share a perspective.

I absolutely despise peas, brussel sprouts, lima beans, and beets. I don't mean I just casually "dislike" them, I mean I find them vile, disgusting, gross, repulsive, and vomit-inducing. I've been bouncing around on this rock for 57 years, and you'd think with all of the different ways to prepare food, they would have found a way for me to like those four items. But nope. Ain't gonna happen. E-V-E-R! And just imagine someone hearing about my disposition on those food items and suggesting that I need to head on over to the store and pick up some of those food items, put them on my plate, and open my mind?

If there is anything I have learned so far in life, it's this: everyone on this planet will like and dislike different things, and have differing beliefs and opinions. I am so thankful for that, because it would be a freakish science-fiction world that I wouldn't want to live in if everyone liked the same thing or had the same opinion of everything. I therefore applaud you for liking what you like. I therefore encourage you to slap and rap to your heart's content if that is what rings your happiness bell in life.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

He's a guy who has often been on record as saying that slap bass is largely unmusical and that in his scene (L.A. based session work primarily) it will never get you hired.

Yes maybe his scene but not the entire LA session scene for sure.

There is not one bass player that single handedly defines a session scene.

 

[MonkeyBass]

Well, thank you good sir for your helpful suggestion. I appreciate you taking time to try and help me.

Allow me to share a perspective.

I absolutely despise peas, brussel sprouts, lima beans, and beets. I don't mean I just casually "dislike" them, I mean I find them vile, disgusting, gross, repulsive, and vomit-inducing. I've been bouncing around on this rock for 57 years, and you'd think with all of the different ways to prepare food, they would have found a way for me to like those four items. But nope. Ain't gonna happen. E-V-E-R! And just imagine someone hearing about my disposition on those food items and suggesting that I need to head on over to the store and pick up some of those food items, put them on my plate, and open my mind?

If there is anything I have learned so far in life, it's this: everyone on this planet will like and dislike different things, and have differing beliefs and opinions. I am so thankful for that, because it would be a freakish science-fiction world that I wouldn't want to live in if everyone liked the same thing or had the same opinion of everything. I therefore applaud you for liking what you like. I therefore encourage you to slap and rap to your heart's content if that is what rings your happiness bell in life.

Ok I will.

 

[SactoBass]

Ok I will.

And btw, I never mean to offend anyone with my opinions. I was sincere when I said my opinion carries no weight......because it doesn't.

 

[kevteop]

That track that JMJ played on: Well yeah, if you set out to emulate a particular sound from the '80s then slapping will work.

For another '80s sound you could try fretless with a chorus pedal. Some bass players still do this with a straight face because they think it's still a cool bass sound.