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Double Bass In the Mode

Yeah I would agree that the physicality of the instrument often dictates how you view music overall. In fact every instrument has its strengths and weaknesses in regards to these 2 aspects: feeling connected to the notes and seeing the big picture (no connotation intended).

It actually make sense that you as a bassist would (might) see scale fingering and modes as a way of "hammering out the proper terrain" than my view from piano of the territory as "being there already". Or perhaps more monophonic vs. more polyphonic due to the way the instruments are laid out.
 
We could sing polywolly doodle all day
In a monomoronophonic way
But TB critics hath panned with “gooday”
To the star of that vainglorius play

To you recall the title?

“The Law of All things Sonic”
Told in first person moronic
The conspiracy of all things diatonic!
With accompaniment from
The stankawanka philharmonic
:spit:
 
I have found this thread facinating. I'm playing around with 'This Old Man' as well. The most annoying thing is I thought of doing it over a year ago then forgot.

Whilst I haven't got to the place most of you are coming from, I see exercises like the one Ray suggested as helping me work out where the notes I want are. I can hear the line I want to play in my head in relation to the other guys playing but haven't developed the habit/knowledge/whatever to hit them every time.

It's good stuff, I can't believe the amount of knowledge in one place.

Cheers to you all,

Rob
:ninja:
 
Nothinggod:
As for how important the diatonic scale system is, I challenge anyone to explain to me how it is objectively more important than any other scale.
%$#@!
I can't believe it. I miss the forum for a busy gig, and rehearsal schedule and this twerp is banned before I can get a clean shot at him. Double drat. Kudos to those who challenged him on his own weird planet. Doubtless he is looking for another forum to invade.

I have found (please don't take me for one of these) that there are some people so bent on destroying what they perceive to be "conditioned" and "programmed" perceptions, that they lose the ability to distinguish between what is true western cultural bias and what is simply the nature of reality that has been revealed through an intensive study of real phenomena by persons born into western culture. The result is the worst kind of self-brainwashing where every standard of the "dominant culture" must be viewed as dogma. There isn't much to say to people who are out on that limb. Just saw it off. Nothinggod pretty much tells it all. This is the end result of that type of thinking, that there is no Truth, only subjective reality. Where are the Marxist materialists when you need them? ;)

More to the original topic on modalities in Bluegrass: There are countless examples of shifts from Ionian to Aeolian and vice versa;- the most popular (to me anyway) is Blackberry Blossom. Misty Morning actually shifts scales while preserving the same tonic, which is another way of using modes (sort of). If you can find recordings of those (sorry, I don't have them), then you can hear the differences. In Blackberry Blossom the 1 that you play shifts when you change modes from G (Ionian) to E (Aeolian). In Misty Morning, only 3 chords are used in the first figure (lets call that part A) and it is Em, Am, BM. The second figure (we could call that B) is EM, AM, BM. What's useful is that the key switch follows the BM, which is common to both keys. So that is how you can use modes to modulate key changes from an "A part" to a "B part" and back.

As far as establishing an objective physical mathematical basis for the diatonic scale and its' derivatives that has to do with harmonic consonance, I found this link which I think illustrates very well why and how the diatonic scale and its' notes have formed the basis for music in so many widely separated cultures. Within it is the idea that Eastern microtonal scales are just an extension of the same harmonic foundation embodied in the diatonic scale. It is the first time I have seen it in such an easily read table: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It seems that if there is a bone to pick, it is with equal temperament. But I don't think people who play unfretted instruments play in equal temperament unless they are trying to play in tune with a piano, fretted guitar or something that is tuned in equal temperment. It just ain't natural, as they say.
 
On the modal thing, in my experience just going diatonically through the modes doesn't really get to the essence of what modes can be. If a tune is all essentially in one key, or moves diatonically through different keys, I don't think the listener perceives different modes, and the improviser is better off thinking about chord tones and key. However, if you take a truely modal composition, then you start to understand the sound of each mode in relation to the others. A very simple example is Miles Davis' So What (I know, it's not bluegrass, but bear with me..). The modes go: 2 sections of 8 bars D-dorian, 8 bars Eb-Dorian and finally 8 bars D-dorian again. Here's where you can use your ears to hear some modes on their own: just put on an Aebersold record with just piano and drums playing So What (or Coltranes 'Impressions' - same changes), and experiment with different bass notes. If you play G, what was once D-7(dorian) becomes G7 mixolydian. E makes phrygian, etc... Now try to find other modal tunes to listen to. Bill Evans' Time Remembered is a great example. It goes through many keys, but has no real key center, no II-Vs. That makes it modal.
To make matters worse, or better, depending on your point of view, then there's the melodic minor modes! These are a treasure trove for jazz musicians, and are used on a daily basis.
 
Am I ever glad I got too busy to remain a Moderator. I missed this whole thing.
Damon Rondeau said:
Just so the conversation doesn't seem quite so stilted to the reader who doesn't know what's going on or who may not know the players in this little dustup:
...
nothinggod is a question mark who turned up out of nowhere to say a bunch of stuff about modes. Did you understand any of it? Neither did I, and I've only been hanging around and studying music for, oh, thirty years.
Anyone around here remember Maestro? I swear, he and this nothing are related. Or else they were roommates at charm school.
 
Holy crap, I can't believe I read this whole thread.

nothinggod is what happens when Comic Book Guy buys a bass (and you know it's gonna be a Geddy Lee signature model...)

iPlay15151515 said:
So, in the bluegrass genre, how do I use them?

You don't; you stick to root and five, and enjoy the beauty of the clock instead of worrying about how ornate your gear might be.

;)
 
Quote from Silversorcerer:"It seems that if there is a bone to pick, it is with equal temperament. But I don't think people who play unfretted instruments play in equal temperament unless they are trying to play in tune with a piano, fretted guitar or something that is tuned in equal temperment. It just ain't natural, as they say.[/QUOTE]

Hmm... I don't know, Silver. If you think about it, just about every instrument has to be equal tempered. How could a saxophonist play with a piano player otherwise and be in tune in all keys? True, trumpet players and other brass players have to learn to bend the natural pitches, but bend them they do. Remember the "wolf" key? Was it Ab? Sounds fine now, thanks at least in part to the master, J.S. Bach who, as i'm sure most are aware, was a great promoter of equal-temperament. Anyway, I'm certain that all of our ears have adjusted to equal temperament, whether playing with piano, guitar or not.
 
nothinggod said:
As for mike's comment about what the double bass was deveolped for I would point out that any fretless instument is microtonal and as such can move beyond the constraints of a 12 tone chromatic system.

This has to be the best thing I have gathered from TB in while.

Band Leader: "You're a little flat, Charles."

Me: "No man, I'm moving beyond the constraints of a 12 tone chromatic system."