I have to say Incognito (and other acid jazz bands) have the coolest bass lines. I wonder how does one construct those kind of basslines. Are there any tips or approaches that I may use to create these kind of bass lines? thanks
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Incognito-ish bass lines
- Thread starter RURUBASS
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- bass lines lines
I love Incognito.
When you ask me about Incognito's bass-lines, I could be a little bit confused because there were SO MANY musicians and arrangers working with/for Incognito.
Here is a good start.
We have/had a TB member, Higherground, otherwise known as Richard Bull who has been working, arranging, recording with/for Incognito.
Here is his profile page at TB. Just e-mail and ask him your question.
Higherground
Check this TB thread where Richard Bull answered a few questions.
Incognito- new to me!
Here is one of his songs with Incognito.
Written & Produced by Jean-Paul "Bluey" Maunick and Richard Bull
Published by J-P. Maunick (BMG Global Chrysalis), R. Bull (Copyright Control)
Jean-Paul "Bluey" Maunick: Vocals
Ski Oakenfull: Synthesisers Higherground
Richard Bull: Keyboards & all other instruments (including the bass)
Recorded by Richard Bull & Ski Oakenfull. Mixed by Richard Bull
Listening to, transcribing and analyzing the lines you like is probably the best place to start.
50/50.
As a true PRO Musician, composer, arranger, etc..., Richard Bull has NO time to talk about C major scales but...
When we had a question about some specific Incognito song/s, Richard Bull was very nice to answer it, but...
As you've mentioned in your posting, the best thing is to transcribe and ANALYZE Incognito's bass lines.
I agree with @Whousedtoplay.
Here's what I'm working on now
What would be the reason for you to work with the LIVE version of the song instead of the studio one?
What do you think about The Jones Girls original version?
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Yeah, it was pretty cool of him to clear up some misconceptions about who played some of the lines on Tribes, Vibes & Scribes. It was certainly a surprise to me that most of the bass parts on that album were programmed.
It was certainly a surprise to me that most of the bass parts on that album were programmed.
In the late 80's and early 90's it was NOT a surprise but a HUGE inferiority complex
for me thinking that the keyboard players will replace us, the bass players. I was desperately trying to achieve a similar sound on my bass.
I was born and raised in Philly and remember when Dexter Wansel wrote that song but seeing it live I can witness the positions and helps me find my way.
Bass programming didn't surprise me during that period, per se, but I always assumed the parts on Tribes were played by Randy Hope-Taylor (a reasonable assumption, given that he was the bass player in the band at the time). I also assumed the drums and percs were "live" as well. Goes to show that, when it comes to the studio, you can never be too sure.In the late 80's and early 90's it was NOT a surprise but a HUGE inferiority complex
After watching the video, transcribing a few of those dance moves into workable bass lines would be pretty awesome!
The Jones Girls version is the only one I was into. To this day I'm trying to get into Incognito, but I dunno if they do it for me.
thanks all for the good informations and responses. I have been learning some of their songs and been trying to decode the groove. I guess it will take some time for me to be able to learn their grooves and replicate it to my lines. But anyway thanks for the emails shared, will be very useful and I think I'll directly consult to the master
A lot of those grooves, and others like them, sound very weird alone, without harmony. Consequently, if you don't have a superior ear for imagining harmony, and advanced harmony at that, such basslines will not be created.
In other words, If you were given some Incognito type chord progressions then you would be far more likely to come up with such basslines.
No offense, my ear is weak and there are bass lines that I can play very well which sound not right to me without the chords playing along.
One thing to note is that super cool baselines will often sit on non-root tones but that also requires the other instruments to be not down in your frequency range lest you create mud. It's a whole way of life, and can't just be dabbled in. Work on your ear, I say to myself as well.
Agree with your statement with just one "but"...
At the end of your sentence, I would say, "without the Rhythm/Rhythm section/Drums/Percussion/Rhythm guitar.
It's a GROOVE-based composition/song; therefore, the RHYTHM/Groove part takes precedence over the HARMONY segment.
See below my chord progression. What's more, that my chord progression could even confuse some of the beginner bass player like me.
Overall, your statement is correct in my world (only).
Let's take a simple but catchy track, "Colibri".
N.B. The bass-line was arranged and programmed (as well as Keyboards, Strings, Percussion & Drums) by Richard Bull. It's not a live bass.
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"...it comes from the Bob Clearmountain Percussion & Bass Library, (a 5 string Music Man bass) specifically, the D.I. samples but only 5 of the available set; F1, C2, F2, C3 & F3. They were sampled into an Akai S950, and at the time, I was using Steinberg's Cubase on an Atari Falcon computer. The bass was not 'performed' via Midi keyboard but programmed manually by mouse. Unlike today's bass libraries, trills weren't available, so they had to be mimicked using Pitch bend!
Richard Bull"
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Here is a transcription of that bass-line from here:
Link Removed
The bass-line is (what I call it) "mounted" on the top of a grooving Drum/Percussion rhythmic pattern, with the Rhythm Guitar providing additional "groove-straightening" elements. And yes, played alone the bass-line would NOT be so "attractive", or "weird" as you said.
(When I used to jam, I always wanted for the drummer/percussionist to establish a solidly-grooving rhythm pattern with the rhythm guitar player (or keyboard player) adding some extra rhythmic "tensions" and setting up a chord progression.)
For all those beginner bass players like me, I'd like to take a look at a very few bars of the bass-line riff in Verse/Theme.
As I've been saying for many years,
the GROOVE-BASED music requires a GROOVE/pattern/riff, etc... - based bass line.
And, YES, VARIATIONS of that groove/riff/pattern/etc... are encouraged with some stipulations,
like
don't destroy the groove while "variating", don't change the groove's feel, don't destroy the song's mood, character, don't create some "messy/moody" intervention with other instruments, etc...
Take a look at those few bars of the syncopated bass-line and figure out the pattern, variations of it.
Just my thought/opinion about that cool bass rhythmic pattern.
It's a two-bar bass riff, but I would divide it into 4 parts due to harmonic rhythm.
Bar 1 - Part 1 and Part 2.
Bar 2 - Part 3 and Part 4.
There are two - different - rhythmic contours/shapes of that bass pattern - Part 1 and Part 2 + Part 3 and Part 4.
As an amateur bass player I would continue with the same bass-line "contour" in Part 3 and would change the "contour" in Part 4.
At first, that change of the bass-line rhythmic "contour" in Part 3 sounded to me like some "stop" moment in propelling the song/harmony, but after a few listenings, I got used to it.
What's more, now I think that preserving the bass rhythmic contour in Part 3 would probably make the bass-line too "predictable" and mediocre.
A superb arranger Richard Bull knows better what he's doing.
Colibri's harmonic rhythm is two chords per measure.
Here are the chords (as the way I've heard them) for Theme/Verse on the piano:
(I don't have a guitar to properly notate the notes for the rhythm guitar)
(N.B. I did not want to write those chords as Em9 or Dm7(9) because it does NOT give me the right harmonic aurality for my ears.)
Bm7/E = (going up) A - B - D - F# with the E note in the bass.
/
A7/5+ = G - A - C# - F natural with A in the bass.
|
Am7/D = G - A - C - E with D in the bass.
/
Bbmaj7/G = F - A - Bb - D with G in the bass.
Bm7/E = (going up) A - B - D - F# with the E note in the bass.
/
A7/5+ = G - A - C# - F natural with A in the bass.
|
Am7/D = G - A - C - E with D in the bass.
/
Fmaj7 /G = C - E - F - A with G
and
Fmaj7 /D = C - E - F - A with D in the bass.
