• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Input needed on selling issue

Thanks in advance for reading and commenting, I will try to be concise.

I recently sold my 4 string Fender USA P bass deluxe on Reverb. I am in Pennsylvania and the buyer is in Arizona. He haggled with me and I gave him almost $100 off my listing price (up to me, I know that).

The bass is a 2003 and I had the action set low. In fact I stated in the ad that it was extremely low, that’s my opinion of course. When I would play it I didn’t mind if I had a little buzz “sizzle” in the sound.

I packed well and shipped with strings detuned. No visible damage to the packaging or contents. The buyer stated that the action was extremely high when he tuned it up, so he took it to Guitar Center for a restring (wasting the brand new strings that were on it) and action adjustment. They said there must be something wrong with it because they couldn’t get it to adjust low with no buzz. No buzz is a key point, because the buyer wants low action with no buzz.

At this point he accused me of selling a bass with a known problem, to which I told him I played it with low action and didn’t mind a little buzz. It is 15 years old, maybe some fret work is needed and I would appreciate if he would take it to a reputable luthier to get a second opinion and then I would split repair cost with him to get his preferred setup.

He seemed okay with that and took it to a place that he said is far from home but he was sure they could help. They stated the P pickup was too high and they lowered that (had to rout extra space for wiring I am told because the screws weren’t doing the job) and set it up. They did not state that there is a problem with the bass otherwise and they returned it to him.

He says there is still a buzz and he is very upset, saying this bass has a problem and I must have known and I had better stop playing and return his money. He said it is not as described because I stated extremely low action and he can’t get the action low without a buzz. I kindly said that this is a player preference issue and asked if he discussed fret work with the shop. I am still willing to split the repair cost but I suggested that he sell the bass if he doesn’t like it. I gave him a discount and shipped across the country and he would have to ship back at his expense as well.

That’s where we stand at the moment, haven’t heard back from him yet. Am I being reasonable? I haven’t been in a disputed transaction for probably 12-15 years and that was on eBay and it was found in my favor as seller! I always represent things as honestly as possible.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Garret Graves
I think you covered everything with integrity. It is impossible to describe in words every tonal aspect of an instrument. And as you mentioned, so much is personal perception and preference.
Is the buyer a young player? May be a factor.
Stop offering to send him money, your part us done. And you probably don't want it back after someone doing modifications on the bass.
 
If you had specified the exact action at which it played and was set to when sent and then he disputed that it couldn't reach those figures maybe something happened during transit (climatically etc). But short of a broken trussrod (unlikely as I hope the shop would have noticed that!) I can't see what would affect action that drastically.

Like you said, the term 'low' is totally subjective. I agree with Gorn that the moment you start dicking around with an instrument (especially removing material from it), then you have decided to keep it because you can't return a modified instrument.

If you have to lower a pickup (to the point you have to route under it) it would be because the action has become lower, NOT higher?

I think (from what you have said) you have been more than honest and fair.
 
See, that's what happens when you ship a bass detuned. ;) But seriously... One of the risks that a buyer takes when buying on the internet is that you can't be sure of exactly what you're getting. In this case, the buyer was relying on your idea of "low action" lining up with his idea of "low action" - not to mention the issue of buzzing. Different people get bothered by different things and if one is going to buy a bass before trying it then one must be prepared to deal with the fact that the instrument might not meet one's expectations. Hey, that's one of the main reasons people will resell instruments that they just acquired. If an instrument is clearly defective and the defect wasn't mentioned by the seller before the sale took place then that's an entirely different scenario - but it doesn't sound like that's what happened here. Regardless, the time for a refund, in my opinion, was before any substantial work was done on the bass. At this point I would say that if the buyer is not satisfied with the bass then it is his to sell.

For the record, if this had happened to me (as buyer or seller) I would have asked for a letter from a reputable luthier/tech outlining any problems with the bass. If there was any work to be done on the instrument I would have asked for a quote and then made a decision with the buyer/seller about what course of action to take next.
 
Replace "seller / buyer" with "Music Shop/Buyer"

Would any other music shop allow for a return if the buyer routed the body? The answer is no in case you wondered.

If PayPal or another pay app is involved, buyer may put in a claim. Not sure if you can preemptively notify Reverb or the pay app to prevent a hold on your account. Should look in to that.
 
As others have said, the minute he let a shop take a router to the body, it’s a done deal and there is no returning it. If he starts a case against you, tell reverb/paypal or whoever that he has modified the bass and give them screenshots of your conversation with him stating he did this.
 
If you promised him a bass that has no buzz no matter how low the action is, then he might have a point. Doesn't sound like you promised that, and at any rate once he has the bass modified (the router) than even by the standards of ordinary retail sales (let alone person-to-person) he's voided any responsibility on your part.
 
I spoke to the repair person, who said the only problem with the bass is how Fender made it. The double J bridge pickup pulls the strings down magnetically and creates buzz, so he fixed the neck adjustment that Guitar Center had done badly, put new softer foam underneath the pickup, and routed clearance for the wires so they don't get snapped in half. The buyer wanted low low action, so he set it to 50 thousandths (last fret) on the G and 70 on the E, and played it without a buzz. He said it's a unicorn to play that low, plays as low as a Les Paul. He wouldn't feel bad selling that bass to anyone.

I sent that to the buyer, will see what he says. I haven't tackled the modifying issue yet. His Reverb dispute window has come and gone but apparently he has 6 MONTHS on PayPal!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: MDBass and jamro217
Here is my exact quote at the time:
"There was nothing wrong with this bass and it could easily be set up correctly by someone better than Guitar Center. Please pursue that and I will split the cost of the setup with you. I will not pay for new strings or a restringing because it was not needed."
 
Shipping detuned is wrong. The truss rod has to be set to balance string pull. Detuning without adjusting truss rod puts undue pressure on the neck.

At this point however, given the routing, I'd say no refund.

+1, detuning strings is asking for trouble. You've got uneven tension on the neck and no idea what temperature or humidity extremes the bass will be subjected to in transit.

But like @JTE said, if he's modded the bass then he can't return it.