Input needed on selling issue

[Deleted member 165050]

My shop policy on Reverb: "This item is sold As-Is and cannot be returned unless it arrives in a condition different from how it was described or photographed."

I had a potential buyer on eBay today telling my that my "no returns" listing condition was invalid. I blocked him.

 

[Kmonk]

The metal string is vibrating against a metal fret so there will always be some buzz. Did you ask him if he is hearing the buzz when playing acoustically, when he is playing through an amp or both? I like low action as well and sometimes I hear buzzing when playing acoustically but do not hear it through an amp. The buzzing could also be the result if the buyer's playing ability and / or technique.

 

[Drucifer]

This kind of thing wants me to set up my sales as final when I sell on reverb, but that may turn off a buyer. I think in retrospect it might have been better to say take it or leave it.

 

[gln1955]

I spoke to the repair person, who said the only problem with the bass is how Fender made it. The double J bridge pickup pulls the strings down magnetically and creates buzz, so he fixed the neck adjustment that Guitar Center had done badly, put new softer foam underneath the pickup, and routed clearance for the wires so they don't get snapped in half. The buyer wanted low low action, so he set it to 50 thousandths (last fret) on the G and 70 on the E, and played it without a buzz. He said it's a unicorn to play that low, plays as low as a Les Paul. He wouldn't feel bad selling that bass to anyone.

I sent that to the buyer, will see what he says. I haven't tackled the modifying issue yet. His Reverb dispute window has come and gone but apparently he has 6 MONTHS on PayPal!!

Well, if his repair person says it's that good, he really doesn't have a leg to stand on at this point.

 

[B-Mac]

Once he spent money having it worked on, your potential obligation to do anything ended. A return, if you agreed to one (which you wouldn't necessarily have to) needed to happen before someone did any work on the bass. It's his now. Give him nothing.

^ what he said ^

 

[bearfoot]

IMO the only mistake was sending the bass detuned, AFAIK there is no reason to do that, and no manufacturer I know of does so. But nor do I believe that would have caused the bass to go from low sizzle to high action.

You are not responsible for providing a setup, or second setup, to the customer.

My only 2 cents is, if you keep selling instruments, don't ship them set up that way (which I happen to like aslo), as there is no clear definition for this purpose between "sizzle" and "buzz". I would return it to factory spec action, or just raise it a touch and put the action measurement in the listing, not words like "low" or "medium".

Best of luck. If I were you, I would not respond to any more messages from the buyer.

 

[bikeplate]

Guy is on his own. Youve done quite enough

 

[MD Stingray]

Also, in my experience , putting new strings on a bass almost always requires a set up from scratch. Especially if it is another brand/type/material.

 

[Rib 13]

a person can put a microscope to anything and find flaws if one chooses to pick nits.....and once that thing was routed (physically altered in any way) that for sure is a done deal...

 

[lossforgain]

I have sent him back $60 to pay half of the repairs that were done. There is documentation of our whole conversation and he agreed to keep it. Looks like we're good. Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[Chrisk-K]

I am glad that I made a decision not to sell my gear online. I’d rather donate and get a tax deduction than deal with online buyers.

 

[Gorn]

I am glad that I made a decision not to sell my gear online. I’d rather donate and get a tax deduction than deal with online buyers.

These situations are the exception, not the norm.

 

[Iridescentone]

I had a potential buyer on eBay today telling my that my "no returns" listing condition was invalid. I blocked him.

Yes, no, and sometimes. In the event of a dispute, if ebay deems that the listed item is not as described (read; misrepresented), then any "no returns" conditions become virtually meaningless.

There are buyers who look to exploit vulnerable listings, so steps to minimize their opportunities can be taken. Blocking potential problem people is definitely one of them. I'd have prolly blocked your guy too, better safe than sorry.

 

[Maxdusty]

Shipping detuned is wrong. The truss rod has to be set to balance string pull. Detuning without adjusting truss rod puts undue pressure on the neck.

At this point however, given the routing, I'd say no refund.

Yes, I received a bass recently detuned and the tension of the truss rod without compensating tension from the string back bowed the neck. I think if you insist on shipping a bass detuned, you have to release the tension from the truss rod as well, really much better to just leave it tuned as is. It was in transit for a week so even a short amount of time can do that to a neck. The action was abnormally high as a result which is I think what probably happened to the op's bass. I did get it back to true straight after a few days of coaxing it.

Now in terms of the op's bass, the buyer had it routed without letting the seller's knowledge and agreement, why the heck does he think he can now return it after it had work like that done to it? Once you alter the body like that, sorry it's his, no return. You agreed to have the frets checked out and split the cost, you didn't agree to this.

 

[Mister Boh]

FWIW Reverb recommends packing a guitar with the strings loosened and something like newspaper between the strings and fretboard.

How to Ship a Guitar

 

[Iridescentone]

IMO the only mistake was sending the bass detuned, AFAIK there is no reason to do that, and no manufacturer I know of does so. But nor do I believe that would have caused the bass to go from low sizzle to high action.

You are not responsible for providing a setup, or second setup, to the customer.

My only 2 cents is, if you keep selling instruments, don't ship them set up that way (which I happen to like aslo), as there is no clear definition for this purpose between "sizzle" and "buzz". I would return it to factory spec action, or just raise it a touch and put the action measurement in the listing, not words like "low" or "medium".

Best of luck. If I were you, I would not respond to any more messages from the buyer.

I agree for the most part, but there is one reason to detune when shipping.....the carriers insist that you do, or any shipping damage to the neck may not be covered, especially with UPS (don't ask how I know).

I'm not convinced that shipping a bass detuned without loosening the truss rod is going to cause neck issues, we're only talking about a few days duration. Over a longer time period then yes, there is some chance of a permanent change to a neck. But even then, it doesn't mean for sure that the neck can't be adjusted back to normal (but it might).

Exit question: Ever wonder why, when older necks go bad they tend to end up with excess relief, as opposed to forming a back bow?

 

[greenduke]

(had to rout extra space for wiring I am told because the screws weren’t doing the job) and set it up?
Wait...What? So, do Fender 4 string Fender USA P bass deluxe's seem to have this inherent issue?
Seems pretty radical to have to start taking a router to the bass just to obtain proper PU height? Geez...Who knows what else has been done since he took possession.
There's a point of no return here. Once you've eaten the whole steak you can't send back the bone and demand a refund!
As far as detuning for shipping goes, if I'm correct, at least FedEx and UPS requires all string instruments to have the string tension released prior to allowing shipment.
Loosening the truss rod may be recommended if doing so but, if the buyer isn't informed or knowledgeable about proper set-up techniques, he'll probably freakout upon receipt!
I always ask the buyer what his packing, shipping preference are.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Thanks in advance for reading and commenting, I will try to be concise.

I recently sold my 4 string Fender USA P bass deluxe on Reverb. I am in Pennsylvania and the buyer is in Arizona. He haggled with me and I gave him almost $100 off my listing price (up to me, I know that).

The bass is a 2003 and I had the action set low. In fact I stated in the ad that it was extremely low, that’s my opinion of course. When I would play it I didn’t mind if I had a little buzz “sizzle” in the sound.

I packed well and shipped with strings detuned. No visible damage to the packaging or contents. The buyer stated that the action was extremely high when he tuned it up, so he took it to Guitar Center for a restring (wasting the brand new strings that were on it) and action adjustment. They said there must be something wrong with it because they couldn’t get it to adjust low with no buzz. No buzz is a key point, because the buyer wants low action with no buzz.

At this point he accused me of selling a bass with a known problem, to which I told him I played it with low action and didn’t mind a little buzz. It is 15 years old, maybe some fret work is needed and I would appreciate if he would take it to a reputable luthier to get a second opinion and then I would split repair cost with him to get his preferred setup.

He seemed okay with that and took it to a place that he said is far from home but he was sure they could help. They stated the P pickup was too high and they lowered that (had to rout extra space for wiring I am told because the screws weren’t doing the job) and set it up. They did not state that there is a problem with the bass otherwise and they returned it to him.

He says there is still a buzz and he is very upset, saying this bass has a problem and I must have known and I had better stop playing and return his money. He said it is not as described because I stated extremely low action and he can’t get the action low without a buzz. I kindly said that this is a player preference issue and asked if he discussed fret work with the shop. I am still willing to split the repair cost but I suggested that he sell the bass if he doesn’t like it. I gave him a discount and shipped across the country and he would have to ship back at his expense as well.

That’s where we stand at the moment, haven’t heard back from him yet. Am I being reasonable? I haven’t been in a disputed transaction for probably 12-15 years and that was on eBay and it was found in my favor as seller! I always represent things as honestly as possible.

I have a P-Bass Deluxe and it’s as you described yours, low action and a touch of buzz. I’m not sure why they needed to rout out the body for the pickup because the buzz is an neck issue. Once the the body was routed, without your expressed content, it’s over. The dude bought the farm.

No you are not unreasonable. If the guy trashed your strings and maybe put much thicker strings (like BEAD for instance) on it, it’s going to need a neck adjustment among other things. Best wishes.

 

[dan1952]

I can make any guitar or bass rattle if I try hard enough. The buyer is an *******.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

Yes, no, and sometimes. In the event of a dispute, if ebay deems that the listed item is not as described (read; misrepresented), then any "no returns" conditions become virtually meaningless.

There are buyers who look to exploit vulnerable listings, so steps to minimize their opportunities can be taken. Blocking potential problem people is definitely one of them. I'd have prolly blocked your guy too, better safe than sorry.

It's up to eBay not to the buyer though, and if the item is fairly and accurately described than the no returns condition applies. Problem at the moment is eBay is weighted in favour of the buyer, which lets dishonest buyers think they can order something to see if they like it and if not return it at the buyer's cost by claiming not as described, or maybe demand a partial refund (which is a well known scam of course).

eBay is a nightmare, but it's still the best way to sell unwanted stuff... I wish Reverb would take off a bit more over here.