Input needed on selling issue

[Iridescentone]

(had to rout extra space for wiring I am told because the screws weren’t doing the job) and set it up?
Wait...What? So, do Fender 4 string Fender USA P bass deluxe's seem to have this inherent issue?
Seems pretty radical to have to start taking a router to the bass just to obtain proper PU height? Geez...Who knows what else has been done since he took possession.
There's a point of no return here. Once you've eaten the whole steak you can't send back the bone and demand a refund!
As far as detuning for shipping goes, if I'm correct, at least FedEx and UPS requires all string instruments to have the string tension released prior to allowing shipment.
Loosening the truss rod may be recommended if doing so but, if the buyer isn't informed or knowledgeable about proper set-up techniques, he'll probably freakout upon receipt!
I always ask the buyer what his packing, shipping preference are.

Yeah, right off the bat it seems obvious that something totally wack is going on.

 

[40Hz]

Fender doesn’t guarantee anything outside their published string height specs. If no representation was made by you otherwise I don’t see where the buyer has a leg to stand on. Simply stating it was set up by you for low action isn’t a guarantee. And vombined with the fact the bass gas been routed without your permission is the icing on the cake.

I’d suggest contacting Reverb and let them know there’s a potential probkem brewing and get your side in first before your buyer contacts them with a tale of grief and woe that would affect your account with them.

If he complains to Paypal however, be prepared for Paypal cover its own butt and issue him a refund without warning you. Paypal almost always sides with the seller and then leaves the two parties to duke it out on their own.

 

[jamro217]

Funny, it didn't buzz when everybody else played it. Of course, no one else took power tools to it, either. Sounds like your buyer is a chump and you, being a kind hearted individual, went above and beyond to appease him. And took it on the chin financially in the process. Sorry this happened. Hopefully in the future all of your transactions will be smooth.

 

[Iridescentone]

It's up to eBay not to the buyer though, and if the item is fairly and accurately described than the no returns condition applies. Problem at the moment is eBay is weighted in favour of the buyer, which lets dishonest buyers think they can order something to see if they like it and if not return it at the buyer's cost by claiming not as described, or maybe demand a partial refund (which is a well known scam of course).

eBay is a nightmare, but it's still the best way to sell unwanted stuff... I wish Reverb would take off a bit more over here.

That's right, but it's the buyer who initiates a dispute, so in effect the buyer is in control at that point, and continues to have some further control as he pleads his case to ebay. Other factors enter the equation too, like the seller's history with ebay, and especially how comprehensive the listing was, both in written description and detailed photos. CYA.

Ebay has to favor buyers to protect them from scammers. Before they adopted their buyer protection protocols, ebay was a goat rodeo rife with rippoff artist sellers. That buyer protection has scared off (driven out) the worst offenders. Ebay is exceptionally safe for buyers as a result.

Ebay isn't a nightmare to me as a seller, but it's a lotta work (a couple hours) composing a listing that will attract the best buyers, while also deterring the jerks from targeting my listings for their nefarious schemes. Naturally, the more my item is worth, the longer I spend on the listing. Still, the system isn't perfect but the odds are heavily in my favor so I'm okay with it.

I haven't sold on Reverb yet. But as a buyer, I don't trust Reverb as far as I can throw them, ever since I caught them whitewashing a seller's feedback score of a negative I left him. Can't say I've seen that kinda skeeziness on ebay.

 

[lossforgain]

I’d suggest contacting Reverb and let them know there’s a potential probkem brewing and get your side in first before your buyer contacts yyem with a tale of grief and woe tyat vouid affect your account with them.

If he complains to Paypal however, be prepared for Paypal cover its iwn butt and issue him a refund without warning you. Paypal almost always sides with the seller and then leaves the two parties duke it out on their own.

Good advice, because he's back to demanding a full refund and has complained to Reverb. I DID in fact have a conversation with someone at Reverb earlier today so I am hopeful they will side with me.

Here's my email back to them:
Carl,
I had a chat conversation with Kristin D about this issue (order 4xxxxxx) earlier today before a refund was requested. She told me the return window had already expired. Furthermore if you review the conversation between me and the buyer you will see that 1) this is a player preference issue regarding the action of the bass guitar not being what he wants it to be, 2) he had a repairperson work on the bass who modified the body by routing it out, and 3) he finally agreed to keep the bass if I would send him part of the repair cost, which I already did. My shop policy is no returns unless the instrument is not as described in the listing. Please advise me in this situation, because he should not be allowed to return a MODIFIED instrument for a full refund. I did offer to take it back with a 20% restocking fee if he ships it to me. Again, please help. You can reach me at xxx-xxx-xxxx if possible to talk by phone.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

I haven't sold on Reverb yet. But as a buyer, I don't trust Reverb as far as I can throw them, ever since I caught them whitewashing a seller's feedback score of a negative I left him. Can't say I've seen that kinda skeeziness on ebay.

I've so far had eBay remove negative feedback from two buyers/scammers who were trying to use feedback blackmail for financial gain, in both cases though they were dumb enough to leave a clear trail through eBay messaging.

I've sold a couple of things through Reverb and both transactions were hassle-free, but then Reverb still has the mutual feedback system...

 

[baileyboy]

Am I being reasonable?

Ah, the trials and tribulations of seeing/buying without trying. As a seller, you do take some risks that the buyer will find some issue that he/she feels wasn't fully disclosed. That's why lots of pics and clear communication is necessary, as well as full disclosure always.

Upon his displeasure, I would've had him immediately mail it back (his cost) for a full refund, and never made the offer to pay half for a setup to his liking. But the deal breaker for his returning the bass is if he had work done to it, such as routing. The second any buyer physically alters the bass, he/she takes ownership.

 

[lossforgain]

The second any buyer physically alters the bass, he/she takes ownership.

I would agree, but will Reverb? Will PayPal?

 

[mikewalker]

I have had a couple of Reverb transactions (as buyer) that left me with a decidedly bad impression of "Reverb, Inc."
eBay/Paypal has of course been historically craptastic too (I've done 500+ sales, probably 300 purchases there in the past) but I'm leaning towards not being a seller at Reverb, even though I have dozens of musical instruments that I need to get out of storage soon...

 

[Fender_Bender]

I can play with the strings practically laying on the frets without buzzing if I want to. Sounds like this guy is a hack with poor technique.
Agreed on the “you modified it,you bought it” front.

 

[dhagopian]

I cannot imagine a scenario in which what you described would require routing the pickup route. As others have said, the moment he did that, it became his problem. I wouldn't return anything. Let reverb handle it now.

 

[FenderB]

Maybe the fret buzz comes from the way he plays.

 

[gln1955]

I did offer to take it back with a 20% restocking fee if he ships it to me.

You're taking back a bass that has been modified, so has a decreased value now? You're being way too nice with this guy and he's just taking advantage.

 

[Bassist Jay]

I would tell the guy all sales are final. To bad for him. Especially if the guy modified the body with a router.

A few years back I sold a guitar to a guy and insured it during shipping. The guy claimed the box was damaged when the guitar arrived and the guitar was not working. UPS shipped the guitar back to me and I started a claim. UPS paid the insurance claim and I refunded the guy his money. UPS was then supposed to pick up the guitar since they paid for it through the insurance claim. After 30 days, UPS never showed up so I called them. They said if nobody had picked the guitar up in 3 days, it was mine to keep. Since it was 30, they said I could keep the guitar. I then started looking it over because no physical damage was on the outside. I took off the back plate and the guy had cut all of the wires thus why it wasn’t working. He basically got buyers remorse and made a fraudulent claim. I reported this to UPS and they said since the claim was already paid, to not worry about it.

Whenever I sell an instrument now, I do a detailed video of me playing the instrument, video the entire instrument and its electronics. I then take detailed, up close pics of the instrument and several photos of me packing the instrument up for shipping. Last, I then take a photo of the instrument at the shipping place as it is being sealed up but also showing everything used for protection inside the shipping box, even if the instrument is in a hardshell case. I also photo the receipt with tracking number, size and weight of what’s being shipped.

I know my way is very detailed but it will save me in the future, should I ever encounter a fraudulent buyer again. It also doesn’t really take that long to do a quick video and pictures.

I’ve sold several instruments overseas, and the buyers have also appreciated the details that I send them after the instruments ship. They know that I’m not screwing them over and it gives them an extra little assurance that I have taken much care in making sure that their instrument arrives to them safe.

To the OP, if I have any buyers in the future of any instruments that I sell, and they are from Arizona, I may message you and ask what the name of the person is who bought from you, that way I can avoid the same issues in the event he is someone who likes to do this often.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

Cave venditor. In case it hasn’t been said.

 

[lossforgain]

I actually got an apology from him after I put my foot down about him accusing me of lying and misrepresentation. So I went one further and offered to refund him in full minus shipping both ways IF he will send me the bass first and allow me to inspect it to make sure there isn’t any harm done. The repair tech said he didn’t use a router, just a dremel for some wire clearance to make sure they don’t get smashed in half. I got a good vibe from the tech so I am hopeful that the bass is in good order. Only thing is, if it arrives to me and is NOT in acceptable condition I am not sure what I would do.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Thanks in advance for reading and commenting, I will try to be concise.

I recently sold my 4 string Fender USA P bass deluxe on Reverb. I am in Pennsylvania and the buyer is in Arizona. He haggled with me and I gave him almost $100 off my listing price (up to me, I know that).

The bass is a 2003 and I had the action set low. In fact I stated in the ad that it was extremely low, that’s my opinion of course. When I would play it I didn’t mind if I had a little buzz “sizzle” in the sound.

I packed well and shipped with strings detuned. No visible damage to the packaging or contents. The buyer stated that the action was extremely high when he tuned it up, so he took it to Guitar Center for a restring (wasting the brand new strings that were on it) and action adjustment. They said there must be something wrong with it because they couldn’t get it to adjust low with no buzz. No buzz is a key point, because the buyer wants low action with no buzz.

At this point he accused me of selling a bass with a known problem, to which I told him I played it with low action and didn’t mind a little buzz. It is 15 years old, maybe some fret work is needed and I would appreciate if he would take it to a reputable luthier to get a second opinion and then I would split repair cost with him to get his preferred setup.

He seemed okay with that and took it to a place that he said is far from home but he was sure they could help. They stated the P pickup was too high and they lowered that (had to rout extra space for wiring I am told because the screws weren’t doing the job) and set it up. They did not state that there is a problem with the bass otherwise and they returned it to him.

He says there is still a buzz and he is very upset, saying this bass has a problem and I must have known and I had better stop playing and return his money. He said it is not as described because I stated extremely low action and he can’t get the action low without a buzz. I kindly said that this is a player preference issue and asked if he discussed fret work with the shop. I am still willing to split the repair cost but I suggested that he sell the bass if he doesn’t like it. I gave him a discount and shipped across the country and he would have to ship back at his expense as well.

That’s where we stand at the moment, haven’t heard back from him yet. Am I being reasonable? I haven’t been in a disputed transaction for probably 12-15 years and that was on eBay and it was found in my favor as seller! I always represent things as honestly as possible.

You're doing good. You set it up it how you like it, with new strings, before shipping it to him. I wouldn't have put strings on it. Ha. That's more money I'd be losing on top of selling it in the first place. Plus everyone has they're own string preferences anyway. But, I'm sure that he just doesn't know much. Judging that by him taking the bass to guitar center for a re-stringing. You threw him an offer. He even accepted it. He took it to a luthier, who said nothing of any problems. You still hold firm on splitting fret work with him. I would've just told him he needs to play softer, or raise the strings. You've done astounding. On a Seller standpoint. I wouldn't worry about it much. You know it's a good instrument.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I actually got an apology from him after I put my foot down about him accusing me of lying and misrepresentation. So I went one further and offered to refund him in full minus shipping both ways IF he will send me the bass first and allow me to inspect it to make sure there isn’t any harm done. The repair tech said he didn’t use a router, just a dremel for some wire clearance to make sure they don’t get smashed in half. I got a good vibe from the tech so I am hopeful that the bass is in good order. Only thing is, if it arrives to me and is NOT in acceptable condition I am not sure what I would do.

Yeah, that's the hard spot with not finding a local buyer. It could be snapped in half, and he'd say that it was in good condition when he shipped it. Then you'd be out, and stuck. But I don't know man. I myself, would just leave it alone. He needs to find someone who plays, to play around on it and tell him that it's fine. He's either hitting the strings too hard, pushing too hard, both, or using a pick (way too hard). That's the only thing I can think of. But, you sound like a nice reasonable guy, and you're going to try and fix this situation to make him happy, and clear your conscience. So, I'm sorry about your luck with this guy, but I hope it ends well enough. At least with you being able to sell it to someone else.

 

[el_Bajo_Verde]

Sounds like you sold the bass to a complete idiot.

Can't even set up the bass.
Took it to GUITAR CENTER to do something easy like restring and setup
Took a ROUTER to the bass.

Dude sounds like one of those guys that gives basses 1-star reviews because it had fret buzz.

 

[soulman969]

I think you covered everything with integrity. It is impossible to describe in words every tonal aspect of an instrument. And as you mentioned, so much is personal perception and preference.
Is the buyer a young player? May be a factor.
Stop offering to send him money, your part us done. And you probably don't want it back after someone doing modifications on the bass.

I'm of a similar opinion. I've been selling on Reverb for over three years with over 40 successful transactions.

I have a 7 day return policy as Reverb requires of it's Preferred Sellers. If a buyer is unhappy for any reason they're free to ship the item back as received at their own expense. Damage in shipping is a separate issue and I insure all shipments through Reverb.

A return is my only option.

IMHO once you begin renegotiating over issues like setup or some minor finish flaw with some buyers it never ends. You're like a fish on a hook and they will play on your honesty and desire to please them when all they want is a better price and that's how the scheme to get it.

There's nothing about fret buzz a proper setup won't cure most of the time. In the very unlikely event it does need fret work you've already taken $100 off your price to compensate for that. IMHO either your buyer doesn't know what he's doing or he's playing you.

Step off the treadmill because it sounds like you will never make him happy.