Insight on a Career in Music

[beanpitonak]

Hi Justin,

I'm 33, a dad of 2 boys, and a full-time music teacher. I've also played in bands my whole life.

I'm in a transition in my life - I plan on pursuing creating music as an occupation, rather than teaching. I am conflicted with which musical journey to pursue though, as I feel like I get pulled in many directions with music.

I was wondering if you would share some pros and cons of your occupation as a musician/producer. Any insight is appreciated!

THANKS JUSTIN!

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Hi Justin,

I'm 33, a dad of 2 boys, and a full-time music teacher. I've also played in bands my whole life.

I'm in a transition in my life - I plan on pursuing creating music as an occupation, rather than teaching. I am conflicted with which musical journey to pursue though, as I feel like I get pulled in many directions with music.

I was wondering if you would share some pros and cons of your occupation as a musician/producer. Any insight is appreciated!

THANKS JUSTIN!

Hey, I'm 33 with two boys. My wife thinks I should do the same thing. Construction is only a means of life. Music being that means would be a lot nicer.

 

[Carl Hillman]

Hi Justin,

I'm 33, a dad of 2 boys, and a full-time music teacher. I've also played in bands my whole life.

I'm in a transition in my life - I plan on pursuing creating music as an occupation, rather than teaching. I am conflicted with which musical journey to pursue though, as I feel like I get pulled in many directions with music.

I was wondering if you would share some pros and cons of your occupation as a musician/producer. Any insight is appreciated!

THANKS JUSTIN!

Unless you have someone in your family pulling in a good, steady income with health ins. benefits, I would seriously rethink your plan.

You may be game for exchanging financial security to pursue your dream, but should you ask that of your kids?

 

[Lunatique]

Trying to make a decent living in music is incredibly difficult, which is why vast majority of musicians have day jobs. If you must do only music for income, the smart thing to do is to diversify your income stream, because it will up your chances of being able to do music full-time. For example, create sample libraries/plugins, do sound design, compose music for media (film, TV, games, commercials), compose/sell stock music, be a session musician, do audio engineering, and so on. Have a set of skills/knowledge that's in demand.

The days of being able to make a living doing just original music you want to make are long gone, and only the most lucky ones get to do that, and it's kinda like winning the lottery. You'd have to make music in a genre that has a big enough audience, and be interesting enough to compete for attention. A lot of fairly well-known bands and musicians are struggling to make ends meet, and the lack of financial security is okay when you're a young dude couch surfing, but when you have a family to feed, it's a lot to deal with.

 

[beanpitonak]

Thank you everybody for the advice! I realize there are different schools of thought regarding how we live our life... Risky vs Conservative. But, I have already made the decision to pursue music in a creative-sense. I know how hard it is, as I've been in bands and did the music hustle since I was 13! But, Id rather say 'I'm glad I did,' rather than 'I wish I did...'

But it's true - having a family makes things a little trickier! I will still teach and keep some of my private students, so there will be income.

@Lunatique that is some good advice - I plan on continuing to grow my skill set in music. Gotta keep learning - there is so much out there!

But my question to Justin is what are the pros and cons of a session bassist, producer, etc...? Thanks!

 

[Jeremy Darrow]

Congratulations, that's a big step to decide to take. I would argue that there hasn't been a better time to be a creative musician; it's easier than ever to make records, and easier than ever to reach fans directly and promote your music. As you get started, keep your operation lean, but be open to bringing team members on board when you need (and only for the times that you need them). Depending on the genre of music you're interested in there may be conferences or workshops you can attend to learn new skills and to build your network, which is absolutely CRUCIAL.

Good luck!

 

[jmjbassplayer]

Hi Justin,

I'm 33, a dad of 2 boys, and a full-time music teacher. I've also played in bands my whole life.

I'm in a transition in my life - I plan on pursuing creating music as an occupation, rather than teaching. I am conflicted with which musical journey to pursue though, as I feel like I get pulled in many directions with music.

I was wondering if you would share some pros and cons of your occupation as a musician/producer. Any insight is appreciated!

THANKS JUSTIN!

Thank you for the post.

Pros:
Some freedom of schedule.
A career in the arts.
When I am doing well, the income can be great.
A constant change of scene...whether it be playing with someone new on a session, a gig, or producing an album. It always evolves, and in my case, is never a static. That gives me a chance to always learn and always evolve. That's a rare attribute to a career.
The opportunity to travel.
Keeps you young.
So many more.

Cons:
It is a freelance life, therefore it follows the natural laws of any other freelance life: income instability, a relative inability to rely on others, etc.
Producing can be a bit of a drag in particular, in that there are expectations which can be challenging to meet. Also, managing egos can suck, as well as the grind of doing things like comping vocals endlessly, working with people who can't play, dealing with A&R, etc. It easily crosses over from something artistic to more of a slog, if you aren't careful.
You don't always get to perform or record music that you love when you are doing it as a career, and that can be a trap if you turn your career in music into a quest for attainment, money, etc.

Those are some initial, quick thoughts.

 

[jmjbassplayer]

I don't subscribe to the idea that pursuing a career like music should be scuttled because you're worried about what health insurance you can get for your kids or whatever. The kids will end up fine as long as they have, at minimum: 1) solid, loving parents 2) decent schools to go to 3) Food, clothing, shelter, and some semblance of workable health care access. Those things can be achieved with a fairly modest income if you're smart. In fact, kids ultimately end up more healthy and happy when their parent(s) are doing something that they love, because there is a profound trickle-down effect that happens when you have parents who are happy and vital. That cannot be discounted.

That said, I do agree that it's important to diversify your music income stream and not be naive about what kind of money you can realistically get with original music, particularly in the short term.

Be realistic, but go big with the dream. We'll all be dead before you know it, so get to work...and get to fun.

 

[pbass2]

Great advice here. I made the switch to a full-time music career later than the OP, after several decades of being semi-pro.
As for diversifying in this biz, if you compose/write--you must seriously think about what you can do with that ability. What changed it for me and allowed me to go full-time, was getting serious about my writing/composing, and I don't mean my original artist material. I mean composing for hire, to picture(commercials, film, you-name-it, as Lunatique mentions above). And of course, along with that, becoming a power user in my DAW of choice, and playing as many instruments as I could get my hands on, etc. Once I really got into that world(and learned the nitty gritty of publishing, etc), I was able to support myself quite well, keep the family fed and housed in a very expensive area, still do some sessions, put my own stuff out, produce a little, etc. But it's the writing, the content creation, that is the thing. Just as Justin explains, you won't get to work on music you love all the time, or even often, but you'll learn a ton about different genres and approaches. Nowadays, like everything else, there's a glut of people doing it and the landscape has changed a little (just look at all the dime a dozen production music libraries out there now) but man, if you write....put some weight behind that part of your plan. Plus, you can start at any time, and be anywhere...

 

[JimmyM]

I once read a great quote from Jonas Hellborg...and I'm paraphrasing..."You want to make money? Go make money. Play music because you love it and can't stand not making it."

 

[beanpitonak]

@jmjbassplayer Thanks so much for your insight and words of encouragement! Keep on crushin it!

 

[dan1952]

Thank you everybody for the advice! I realize there are different schools of thought regarding how we live our life... Risky vs Conservative. But, I have already made the decision to pursue music in a creative-sense. I know how hard it is, as I've been in bands and did the music hustle since I was 13! But, Id rather say 'I'm glad I did,' rather than 'I wish I did...'

But it's true - having a family makes things a little trickier! I will still teach and keep some of my private students, so there will be income.

@Lunatique that is some good advice - I plan on continuing to grow my skill set in music. Gotta keep learning - there is so much out there!

But my question to Justin is what are the pros and cons of a session bassist, producer, etc...? Thanks!

I think you're choosing to ignore the advice/reality check that some folks are giving here. Producer gigs, session player gigs, big tour gigs - all those are a thing of the past! Even the major studios have very little work for producers and session players, since most recorded music is done on peoples' home computers, in a basement studio in some suburban house. If this weren't the case, 60 - and 70 - somethings like Lee Sklar and Michael Rhodes wouldn't be taking road gigs where they have to live in a tour bus or a Holiday Inn. Your family deserves to be taken care of, with a steady income and health insurance. Even if you're the next Jamerson, Osborn, JMJ, or Sklar, the work IS NOT THERE!!! Don't kid yourself, brother!

 

[jmjbassplayer]

@jmjbassplayer Thanks so much for your insight and words of encouragement! Keep on crushin it!

I think you're choosing to ignore the advice/reality check that some folks are giving here. Producer gigs, session player gigs, big tour gigs - all those are a thing of the past! Even the major studios have very little work for producers and session players, since most recorded music is done on peoples' home computers, in a basement studio in some suburban house. If this weren't the case, 60 - and 70 - somethings like Lee Sklar and Michael Rhodes wouldn't be taking road gigs where they have to live in a tour bus or a Holiday Inn. Your family deserves to be taken care of, with a steady income and health insurance. Even if you're the next Jamerson, Osborn, JMJ, or Sklar, the work IS NOT THERE!!! Don't kid yourself, brother!

That's...a take. Fatalistic, but a take nonetheless. I get it. Times are tighter, good gigs are more scarce, session work has diminished greatly...this is a truism, and it's worth paying attention to. But if your passion, your ability, and how much you appeal to others all align (and yes - all three do have to align), I choose to think there's always a possibility to make a go of it. Always. I know plenty of folks younger than I who I have watched come up in recent times, people I talked to and offered advice to when they were completely nowhere, with nothing but a dream. And now they work all the time. Just because it's as rare as being an astronaut (that's certainly an exaggeration, but you get my drift), doesn't mean it's unattainable.

beanpitonak: Take all the advice here and see what strikes a chord, then follow your strongest instincts. But do not proceed through life under the duress of fear or the principle of "scarcity". Not a way to live.

J

 

[lfmn16]

How do you expect to make money from creating music? Seriously. Let's say you need $50,000 a year. That's about $140 every single day. How are you going to make that? What is your income stream? Who is going to pay you?

If you were an 18 year old kid with no responsibilities I'd say go for it, but with children and a good occupation, you need to have a serious, viable plan for replacing your income, unless your wife will support you or you won the lottery.

Go talk to people working full time in the industry, I think you'll find you're just dreaming.

 

[jmjbassplayer]

How do you expect to make money from creating music? Seriously. Let's say you need $50,000 a year. That's about $140 every single day. How are you going to make that? What is your income stream? Who is going to pay you?

If you were an 18 year old kid with no responsibilities I'd say go for it, but with children and a good occupation, you need to have a serious, viable plan for replacing your income, unless your wife will support you or you won the lottery.

Go talk to people working full time in the industry, I think you'll find you're just dreaming.

He's talking to one right now.

 

[lfmn16]

He's talking to one right now.

I'd talk to a hell of a lot more than one before I quit my job and tried to make a career in a new field.

If somebody doesn't want comments, they should use IM. Otherwise, we're free to post what we want, within the rules.

 

[J_Bass]

Hello,

It seems to me you are already a professional musician, right? You teach full time.

Do you teach at a school, at a music school, or do you do private lessons?

Also, what kind of music are you into? What do you want to play? Or are you willing to play anything, even if you don't like it?

Why do you have to quit teaching? Can't you do a smooth transition? See if you can have both band work and teaching?

As I see it, work is work, you have to grind your butt off to make a living. I know I do. I often think I would like to be a pro musician, I don't even play in a band right now, but I love music. But with 3 kids I don't know if I would like to be away from home so much. I would also take a hit on the pay side.
I watch a lot of concerts, mostly jazz, that is my favorite music. I see those guys playing wonderfully and I am jealous. But I also look at their tour dates and see they are away a lot! Would you be happier being away from home, playing, or at home with your family and not so happy at work?

A musician needs to travel a lot. Are you ready for that? Are you ready to be away from home in important dates, like new year, holidays, summer, etc.?

Work is work, it will never be as you imagine. It will be real.

But JMJ is also right. You have to live and make it worth it while you are here.

You are asking a guy that made it and is a superb musician. You have to also ask the musicians that are in the "more or less" area of things. The guys who play at weddings dealing with all that, the guys that play at summer small city concerts, pumping ones and fifths to boring music. And the ones who didn't make it and had to find another job.

Don't see my lines as disencouraging. Just make sure you have all the angles.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[jmjbassplayer]

I'd talk to a hell of a lot more than one before I quit my job and tried to make a career in a new field.

If somebody doesn't want comments, they should use IM. Otherwise, we're free to post what we want, within the rules.

I agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph. I am not the gospel in this area, and I am also in a specific lane, which I have established over the past 28-odd years. But I will submit that the OP directed his question at me, so I've given my opinions. This is something I've done here in my forum on TB for many years, and in person one-on-one, in seminar form etc for many years as well. Others here have also given their opinions, equally valid. The obvious net result is that there is a wide spectrum of thought in this area, well represented here. A good thing.

To your second paragraph: In what way have I inhibited your freedom to post, other than to respond, indicating that he is talking to someone working full-time in the industry? My response to you was to clarify that I am exactly one of those folks he should be talking to. I welcome your comments. Doesn't matter if I don't agree. Vive la différence.

 

[jmjbassplayer]

Hello,

It seems to me you are already a professional musician, right? You teach full time.

Do you teach at a school, at a music school, or do you do private lessons?

Also, what kind of music are you into? What do you want to play? Or are you willing to play anything, even if you don't like it?

Why do you have to quit teaching? Can't you do a smooth transition? See if you can have both band work and teaching?

As I see it, work is work, you have to grind your butt off to make a living. I know I do. I often think I would like to be a pro musician, I don't even play in a band right now, but I love music. But with 3 kids I don't know if I would like to be away from home so much. I would also take a hit on the pay side.
I watch a lot of concerts, mostly jazz, that is my favorite music. I see those guys playing wonderfully and I am jealous. But I also look at their tour dates and see they are away a lot! Would you be happier being away from home playing, or at home with your family and not so happy at work?

A musician needs to travel a lot. Are you ready for that? Are you ready to be away from home in important dates, like new year, holidays, summer, etc.?

Work is work, it will never be as you imagine. It will be real.

But JMJ is also right. You have to live and make it worth it while you are here.

You are asking a guy that made it and is a superb musician. You have to also ask the musicians that are in the "more or less" area of things. The guys who play at weddings dealing with all that, the guys that play at summer small city concerts, pumping ones and fifths to boring music. And the ones who didn't make it and had to find another job.

Don't see my lines as disencouraging. Just make sure you have all the angles.

Good luck with your decision.

A good look at the situation. Solid post.

To add perspective, I just want to say that I'm still, almost 30 years in, doing sessions on bass where I make $100-$200 a song...and gigs where I make the same, or sometimes nothing, just for the love, for a bit of extra cash, or to help someone out, etc. It's one of my strengths, I feel. Keeps me honest, makes folks happy. When people have budgets to pay me what I think I'm really worth, that's what I get paid. When budgets are scaled way down but I still have the time/want to help/could use some extra cash/like to keep things sharp, I'm working under normal "working guy" modest parameters. This goes the same for my production work. It's the way I like to roll, though it's certainly not the way it is for all the top call dudes. I've done my fair share of $30-$50 blues gigs when I was a young dude coming up. Sure, I'm not going to do that at this stage, but as I've outlined above, it's not far off. Anyway, I'm kind of digressing, but I just wanted to throw that out into this conversation.

J

 

[lfmn16]

I agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph. I am not the gospel in this area, and I am also in a specific lane, which I have established over the past 28-odd years. But I will submit that the OP directed his question at me, so I've given my opinions. This is something I've done here in my forum on TB for many years, and in person one-on-one, in seminar form etc for many years as well. Others here have also given their opinions, equally valid. The obvious net result is that there is a wide spectrum of thought in this area, well represented here. A good thing.

To your second paragraph: In what way have I inhibited your freedom to post, other than to respond, indicating that he's indeed talking to someone working full-time in the industry? My response to you was to clarify that I am indeed one of those folks he should be talking to. I welcome your comments. Doesn't matter if I don't agree. Vive la différence.

My apologies if I inadvertently implied that he SHOULDN'T listen to you. That was not my intent.