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Intonation and Labella Low Tension flats?

Pilgrim

Pilgrim

Supporting Member
Jul 8, 2004
20,100
20,460
Fort Collins, Colorado
www.colocougs.org
#1
I recently got a G&L JB Tribute bass in that very nice Lake Placid blue, and thought I'd try the Labella Low Tension LTF-4A Flexible flats (.042-.100) on it. I've installed the classic 760-FL Labella Deep Talkin Flats (.043-.104) on many basses and never had anything odd happen with intonation or adjustment. It's a 34" bass and I bought the 34" scale strings.

What I ran into on the G&L is that I couldn't intonate a single string of the Flexible Flats given the range of adjustment on the bridge. Every string needed me to move the bridge saddle up farther "up" toward the neck than the stock saddle adjustment screws would allow.

To solve the problem, I got some stainless steel replacement screws that are 20 MM longer than the stock screws, ground the heads down in diameter to fit into the recess at the base of the bridge, and that gave me *just* enough adjustment to set the intonation. I think the D string is still just slightly flat at the 12th fret, but close enough.

I'm checking intonation with a TU-2 tuner, playing the open string and at the 12th fret.

I've set witness points, re-checked the string wrapping and routing, and I've measured the distance from the front of each saddle to the bottom of the nut, and 3 of the 4 saddles are right at 34". I'm starting to wonder if this bridge is installed a bit too low on the body...but if so, as long as I can compensate with longer saddle screws, it will work. I suppose there's room to move the bridge a hair, but it would probably show the bridge footprint in the paint.

I also believe that most bridges are installed correctly, so I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

Has anyone else run into any strange intonation adjustments with the Labella Flexible Flats?? Or perhaps with a G&L JB Tribute?

I bought it used, so whatever is going on, it's mine to keep.

Here's a photo of the bridge, and yes, the A string isn't adjusted symmetrically with the others, but that shouldn't be a problem.

G&L Bridge.jpg
 
#4
Pilgrim said:
I appreciate the response, but I'd have to have someone explain how a tuner can create an intonation problem as described. I find myself unable to think how it could.

I've installed strings on a few dozen basses with tuners up to 60 years old, and this is a new one in my experience.
Click to expand...

It's not so much about creating an intonation problem. It's failure to sense intonation accurately. TU-2 is accurate +/- 3 cents, which is fine, but you can get better than that. If you like the TU-2, and it's not been an issue before, then I still say take it to a tech.
 
#5
Thanks for the follow-up. That makes more sense, and I have three other tuners I can use. I've solved most problems with my instruments, including compete rebuilds and refinishing, so I bet I can figure this out. I'll see what other info turns up in this thread.

I spent the first 10 years playing bass tuning by ear, as it pre-dated electronic tuners. I'm good with the accuracy of a TU-2, and it helps that I never play as high as the 12th fret anyway.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if that bridge is in the wrong place by about 20 MM.
 
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#6
Pilgrim said:
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if that bridge is in the wrong place by about 20 MM.
Click to expand...
That's one thing I would check. Get a tape measure and measure from the nut to where the G string sits on the bridge saddle, as that's typically right around 34" I think. You'd think it wouldn't pass QC at the factory... but perhaps the bridge is installed a bit too far back from the neck?

I don't suppose you checked the strings that were originally on it for intonation before installing the La Bellas?
 
#8
thisheregiraffe said:
That's one thing I would check. Get a tape measure and measure from the nut to where the G string sits on the bridge saddle, as that's typically right around 34" I think. You'd think it wouldn't pass QC at the factory... but perhaps the bridge is installed a bit too far back from the neck?

I don't suppose you checked the strings that were originally on it for intonation before installing the La Bellas?
Click to expand...

Great point! Since I've never had this problem before, I didn't check intonation on the previous strings. I knew the factory rounds were coming off immediately.

But - the distance from the fretboard side of the nut to the break coming off the G string saddle in its current extended position is 34 1/8". I have another 34" scale bass, and the distance from nut to G string saddle on it is 34" but it's in the middle of its adjustment range. The saddle on the G&L is so far extended that it's about to move off the base of the bridge.

I bought this bass used in a good pawn shop, and it is as clean as the day it left the factory. I'm starting to wonder if someone traded it because they couldn't intonate it correctly.
 
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#9
Pilgrim said:
Great point! Since I've never had this problem before, I didn't check intonation on the previous strings. I knew the factory rounds were coming off immediately.

But - the distance from the fretboard side of the nut to the break coming off the G string saddle in its current extended position is 34 1/8". I have another 34" scale bass, and the distance from nut to G string saddle on it is 34" but it's in the middle of its adjustment range. The saddle on the G&L is so far extended that it's about to move off the base of the bridge.

I bought this bass used in a good pawn shop, and it is as clean as the day it left the factory. I'm starting to wonder if someone traded it because they couldn't intonate it correctly.
Click to expand...
It's settled: that one's going to be your stiff-string bass. Get a Roto Steve Harris set ASAP! :p
 
#11
Pilgrim said:
I recently got a G&L JB Tribute bass in that very nice Lake Placid blue, and thought I'd try the Labella Low Tension LTF-4A Flexible flats (.042-.100) on it. I've installed the classic 760-FL Labella Deep Talkin Flats (.043-.104) on many basses and never had anything odd happen with intonation or adjustment. It's a 34" bass and I bought the 34" scale strings.

What I ran into on the G&L is that I couldn't intonate a single string of the Flexible Flats given the range of adjustment on the bridge. Every string needed me to move the bridge saddle up farther "up" toward the neck than the stock saddle adjustment screws would allow.

To solve the problem, I got some stainless steel replacement screws that are 20 MM longer than the stock screws, ground the heads down in diameter to fit into the recess at the base of the bridge, and that gave me *just* enough adjustment to set the intonation. I think the D string is still just slightly flat at the 12th fret, but close enough.

I'm checking intonation with a TU-2 tuner, playing the open string and at the 12th fret.

I've set witness points, re-checked the string wrapping and routing, and I've measured the distance from the front of each saddle to the bottom of the nut, and 3 of the 4 saddles are right at 34". I'm starting to wonder if this bridge is installed a bit too low on the body...but if so, as long as I can compensate with longer saddle screws, it will work. I suppose there's room to move the bridge a hair, but it would probably show the bridge footprint in the paint.

I also believe that most bridges are installed correctly, so I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

Has anyone else run into any strange intonation adjustments with the Labella Flexible Flats?? Or perhaps with a G&L JB Tribute?

I bought it used, so whatever is going on, it's mine to keep.

Here's a photo of the bridge, and yes, the A string isn't adjusted symmetrically with the others, but that shouldn't be a problem.

View attachment 4575335
Click to expand...

One thing you might check is the string height at the saddles. Raising a saddle will result in a higher pitch of fretted notes. And since the LTFs are easier to press you might be able to raise the action. Sometimes after an instrument has been around a while the saddles may need to be adjusted anyway. I have seen one string saddle way lower than it should be when compared to the others. Also, check intonation at various fretted positions, I usually check at the 3rd 7th and 12th. Sometimes a compromise can make a difference.

Since the tuning device has been noted as having an accuracy +/- 3 cents, try using the method of very slowly raising the pitch until it just reaches the mark and never go past. And always tune with the instrument in playing position, not laying on it's back.

There have been strings which come brand new from all brands that can have some sort of manufacturing defect. While I was working on instruments in stores I installed thousands of sets of strings on every kind of instrument. I would come across problems like yours but had the benefit of being able to change that one string which usually fixed problems like you are having.
I hope some of this may be helpful.
 
#18
Is there something going on at the nut? edit: also measure from nut to octave and saddle to octave...as physics goes if you have the string length identical in both directions you should be just about in tune.
 
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#20
Might be worth contacting G&L and asking them about the precise specs for bridge location, to check out your theory. If its off, shouldn't be too hard to relocate it 1/8" or so towards the neck. Looks like the bridge would still cover the current holes.
 

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