Intonation problems with GHS Precision Flats

[RocknRay]

I’m with Boneless. I hear what he recorded and described. None of the discussed remedies work. Also, slippage off the core is a non-issue with hex cores as in the GHS flats. La Bella LTFs have round cores so must be treated more carefully e.g. no cutting past the silk, no stretching.

 

[FunkHead]

Hex core will not prevent slipping. It makes strings less pliable but there's no extra "grip" along the length of the string. There are proper procedures for a reason and while we can't know for sure, we also can't rule it out.

I always use the recommended 90 degree bend method and have never had a problem with Precision flats. I have used them on dozens of builds. In fact they are on my 113th Fender build and sound fantastic.
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[Deleted member 271037]

Which set of Pyramid Golds do you have? I have a set of long scale Pyramids on one of my other basses (an Orange O-Bass), they have lots of character and I actually love the way they sound but they're a bit too uneven from string to string, which I think is due to a bad string gauge pairing. The E string is too thumpy compared to the A string (which sounds perfect), and the D and G strings sound veeeery bright compared to the A string.

That's the reason I don't like Pyramid Golds on long scale basses. The E-string gets too thumpy and "dead" and the tonal balance across the strings is very poor. I love Pyramid Golds on short scale though. In fact, they're my favourite short scale strings. Unlike most strings the Pyramid Golds were actually designed for short scale basses. Specifically for Höfner but they were also the strings used by several 60s San Fransisco bands on their Starfire basses (Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane...). The short scale sets are MUCH better balanced than the long scale sets but they still need a break-in period where E+A will mellow out sooner than D+G. Once they're broken in the E-string will sound more or less like the A-string on the long scale sets (and the rest of the strings will be much better balanced too).

I've read comments about the Pyramid Gold short scale sets being too short for a Starfire and that people had to custom order them directly from Pyramid but I use a regular off-the-shelf short scale set (40-100). They are a perfect fit for my Starfire II but it's VERY close. The silk on the E-string ends just barely short of the nut slot. I guess it's possible that some sets may have the silk into the nut slot but if that's the case you can simply remove a tiny bit of the silk.

Pyramid Golds strings will last FOREVER. In fact, they just get better with age. I've got a set that's at least 20 years old on an old Hagström short scale bass and it sounds better than ever.

You will of course need to give the bass a setup when changing to different gauge/type strings. If not you may end up with more or less what I'm hearing in your GHS clip: A wobbly, "out of tune" tone due to incorrect intonation (which to be honest is what I suspect may be your problem with the GHS flats).

 

[RocknRay]

FunkHead—Glad the GHS flats work for you. Possibly 34” vs 30” scale makes the difference. I want to like them on my 30” Mustang. They are easy on the hands and have an appealing tone. They also “pull sharp” when played moderately hard. Scale issue again, likely. I can tell you Roger Sadowsky some years ago wrote that he would not offer a round core string under his brand because of the increased risk of slippage.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Hex core will not prevent slipping. It makes strings less pliable but there's no extra "grip" along the length of the string. There are proper procedures for a reason and while we can't know for sure, we also can't rule it out.

I always use the recommended 90 degree bend method and have never had a problem with Precision flats. I have used them on dozens of builds. In fact they are on my 113th Fender build and sound fantastic.
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Hex core should prevent slipping. Personally I always do the 90 degrees bend to be 100% sure but I've worked with luthiers who have installed strings for 40-50 years and never did this with no issues whatsoever. The 90 degrees bend should only be nessesary with round core strings. Of course I can't say that the wrapping on a hex core string will NEVER slip but it would be EXTREMELY unlikely for this to happen with two strings in the same set.

 

[FunkHead]

If you put the Ball end in a vice and pull on the outer windings, They will stretch right off the core wire. Hex or Round.

 

[RocknRay]

If you put the Ball end in a vice and pull on the outer windings, They will stretch right off the core wire. Hex or Round.

I’ll have to try that!

 

[Boneless]

That's the reason I don't like Pyramid Golds on long scale basses. The E-string gets too thumpy and "dead" and the tonal balance across the strings is very poor. I love Pyramid Golds on short scale though. In fact, they're my favourite short scale strings. Unlike most strings the Pyramid Golds were actually designed for short scale basses. Specifically for Höfner but they were also the strings used by several 60s San Fransisco bands on their Starfire basses (Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane...). The short scale sets are MUCH better balanced than the long scale sets but they still need a break-in period where E+A will mellow out sooner than D+G. Once they're broken in the E-string will sound more or less like the A-string on the long scale sets (and the rest of the strings will be much better balanced too).

I've read comments about the Pyramid Gold short scale sets being too short for a Starfire and that people had to custom order them directly from Pyramid but I use a regular off-the-shelf short scale set (40-100). They are a perfect fit for my Starfire II but it's VERY close. The silk on the E-string ends just barely short of the nut slot. I guess it's possible that some sets may have the silk into the nut slot but if that's the case you can simply remove a tiny bit of the silk.

Pyramid Golds strings will last FOREVER. In fact, they just get better with age. I've got a set that's at least 20 years old on an old Hagström short scale bass and it sounds better than ever.

You will of course need to give the bass a setup when changing to different gauge/type strings. If not you may end up with more or less what I'm hearing in your GHS clip: A wobbly, "out of tune" tone due to incorrect intonation (which to be honest is what I suspect may be your problem with the GHS flats).

What about getting the single strings in long scale length? It costs a bit more but the string should be the same (just with less silk).

 

[Deleted member 271037]

What about getting the single strings in long scale length? It costs a bit more but the string should be the same (just with less silk).

I think the winding length on the long scale Pyramid Golds may be a bit too long for a Starfire bass. I think you will probably end up with a part of the fully wound string around the tuning peg and I'm not sure this is a good idea with these rather stiff "old school" flats. It might work... or the wrappings may unravel over time. I haven't actually measured this though so I'm not 100% sure. I don't have a long scale set to measure right now. I got rid of them all because I only like Pyramid Golds on short scale basses (where I think they sound AMAZING).

Also, I have no idea if the long scale strings are the exact same specs (core/wrapping ratio) as the corresponding gauges for short scale. My guess would be that they are PROBABLY the same strings but I'm not 100% sure. I did put a long scale set on a hollowbody with an unusually long distance to the tail piece once and it didn't sound very good. This was the standard long scale set though and the main problem was that "dead" .105 E-string.

My advice would be to get the short scale set and peel off a bit of the silk IF it turns out to be a problem. Or contact Pyramid directly and ask for a Starfire-friendly Gold set. They have done this for others in the past and they are generally very helpful about doing custom orders, even for a single set. At least they used to be. I haven't personally been in contact with them for at least a decade.