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Intonation problems with GHS Precision Flats
- Thread starter Boneless
- Start date
The OP is talking about the "medium scale" set, which only comes in 45-60-75-95. Those are the gauges I use on my P bass with no issues. Gauges themselves shouldn't be the problem.
Wow, I love GHS Precision Flats on my P bass. No break in, no sticky feeling, no intonation problems. I'm think he just got a bad set, although mine are regular guage.
That's a handy guide but I feel I should point out that in the text the OP does say, "Always stretch the strings and tune to pitch before setting witness points."
I've never done this myself, though I do set witness points.
It's twisting of the string during mounting, 95% sure, especially since it's on the two lowest strings and it's GHS Precision Flats (they're particularly sensitive to this problem). Here's what you need to do.
Leave the strings mounted on the instrument. Then, with the instrument lying down comfortably, loosen each string in question (one at a time), and gradually push/pull it through the hole in the tailpiece of the bridge until about an inch of string from the ball end is projecting clear. You'll have to kind of keep a soft hand on the string near the nut so it doesn't unwind too much off the post up there. Make sure the string is projecting loosely through the tailpiece and there's no twist in it—it's nice and relaxed. Now, gradually tighten the string (again, soft support up at the nut to prevent unwinding) so that the ball end is captured by the tailpiece again and it goes under tension—this time twist-free.
I will lay money (a modest sum, mind you) that this will solve your problem. This twist prevention routine should be part of mounting any flatwounds on a bass.
Good luck!
Leave the strings mounted on the instrument. Then, with the instrument lying down comfortably, loosen each string in question (one at a time), and gradually push/pull it through the hole in the tailpiece of the bridge until about an inch of string from the ball end is projecting clear. You'll have to kind of keep a soft hand on the string near the nut so it doesn't unwind too much off the post up there. Make sure the string is projecting loosely through the tailpiece and there's no twist in it—it's nice and relaxed. Now, gradually tighten the string (again, soft support up at the nut to prevent unwinding) so that the ball end is captured by the tailpiece again and it goes under tension—this time twist-free.
I will lay money (a modest sum, mind you) that this will solve your problem. This twist prevention routine should be part of mounting any flatwounds on a bass.
Good luck!
On my 30” scale PJ Mustang, GHS Precision Flats 45-95 (short scale set so they are made for it) do indeed have deep and chocolate tone, but I find the E especially hard to intonate and the pitch wobbles all over the place…poor note definition where it is needed most, low F# through A. The A string has similar problems, but less so. I’ve checked for twist, set the witness points, thwacked the strings to stretch…nothing helps. I have 40-95 Chromes on there now (long scale set, as this gauge doesn’t come in short scale) which have none of those problems and have stronger mids, but they’re pretty stiff!
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D
Sometimes a tuner can pick up overtones and give misleading readings when adjusting intonation. Can you post a pic of your saddle positions?
Also, it might be a good idea to avoid using the 12th fret harmonic for setting the intonation on a short scale. Open string vs 12th fret is more reliable in my experience.
Also, it might be a good idea to avoid using the 12th fret harmonic for setting the intonation on a short scale. Open string vs 12th fret is more reliable in my experience.
Turnaround
Commercial User
Yes, MT seems to be against "mashing the strings down", and Roger seems to agree with him about this. But I do think Roger does advocate setting the witness points, just not overdoing it by "mashing the string down" as Michael describes. Setting the witness points is critical to good intonation and tuning stability. The alternative is stretching the string, which doesn't actually stretch it. It simply is an inefficient way of setting the witness points. The added tension you introduce by "stretching" tends to pull the arc out of the string as it arches over the nut and bridge, but you are much further ahead to set those points manually. Stretching does not do a complete job, so as the string settles in over time the intonation drifts.
D
Stretching the string isn't about stretching the string itself and won't do anything with the witness points.
Stretching the string is done to get rid of slack around the tuning posts. If you don't stretch the strings you will usually have a bit of tuning instability until the strings settle by themselves. I always stretch the strings to avoid this but I do it gently.
I do set the witness points but only after I've adjusted the intonation. The reason for this is exactly as described in the video: I don't want to risk any kinks in the strings in front of the saddles. Of course, after I've set the witness points the intonation will shift slightly so I will have to make a small final adjustment. If I don't set the witness points this shift will happen gradually with use and WILL affect intonation. I don't push very hard on the strings though, just enough to make them sit propely over the saddles.
Stretching the string is done to get rid of slack around the tuning posts. If you don't stretch the strings you will usually have a bit of tuning instability until the strings settle by themselves. I always stretch the strings to avoid this but I do it gently.
I do set the witness points but only after I've adjusted the intonation. The reason for this is exactly as described in the video: I don't want to risk any kinks in the strings in front of the saddles. Of course, after I've set the witness points the intonation will shift slightly so I will have to make a small final adjustment. If I don't set the witness points this shift will happen gradually with use and WILL affect intonation. I don't push very hard on the strings though, just enough to make them sit propely over the saddles.
The "wobble" and difficulty to set intonation—especially with a tuner—are both characteristic of the twisting problem. Get the strings completely untwisted and the fundamental blooms, greatly reducing or eliminating both of these issues.
I'm adamant there is no twisting/wrenching/whatever you may call it. I've double-checked, I've slackened the strings, kept an eye on both the tuning post and the tailpiece so that no twists would arise or no slippages either, etc. and I also set the witness points (I'd never done this before, I had never had the need to; I've been using flats for quite a while as well) and the result is this (files below). I recorded the GHS flats, I removed the strings and I mounted the LaBella flats I was mounting earlier. The LaBella flats are relatively new, for flats (about six months, keep in mind I haven't used this bass much). At the end of the GHS file you can also hear a combination of GHS E and A strings and LaBella D and G strings so you can hear the clear difference in tone.
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D
Sometimes the tuner may respond to overtones and give misleading readings when adjusting the intonation. Also, on short scale basses I get much better results when using open strings vs 12th fret rather than 12th fret harmonics vs 12th fret. The harmonics can't be trusted on a short scale.
How much did you move the saddles compared to the LaBellas and in which direction?
How much did you move the saddles compared to the LaBellas and in which direction?
How did you go about trimming the strings to length?
I'm wondering if the internal coils have slipped.
I'm wondering if the internal coils have slipped.
Run the string through the tailpiece, extend it slackly to the headstock, align it to the tuning key, allow about 20cm (8") beyond the tuning key, trim the string.
Did you put a 90° bend in the string roughly 2cm before the trim point?
If not, it could be the internal coils have slipped inside the string.
Honestly, I don't think this could have mattered. Also, the end of the string where you trim it is essentially "dead". It's not as if I'm cutting the string where the winding is nice and thick, I cut it where it's thin and there is no real winding around it.
