Double Bass Intonation Troubles While Descending

[Don Higdon]

Your disclaimer was a wise decision.
In order to answer you, I have to know what finger is playing the F, on what string and in what octave (or position), and what finger and string for the Ab string in what position or ocatve

 

[basturbasso]

2nd finger on f on the d-string in first position(using the simandl postion system), to 3rd finger Ab on g-string

 

[Don Higdon]

It looks like you're at bar 56 in the last movement, using Oscar Zimmerman fingering.
OK, 2 is on F on the D string. Since we're shifting to the G string, think of where 4 is on the G. 4 is at Gb on the D, and at Cb (B) on the G. (this gets tough because the key is Eb, therefore we should talk flats rather than sharps. Also, you've just run a Bb minor arpeggio. You are shifting up to put 3 on Ab. When that happens, 1 will be on Gb (Wow. I can see you're shifting tonality, going to a sharp key) On an upshift, you describe where 1 will land in respect to the prior position:
1 goes 3 1/2 above 4, i.e.
Gb is 3 1/2 above Cb
Cb to Db = 1
Db to Eb = 1
Eb to F = 1
F to Gb = 1/2

You picked a difficult example, in isolation. As I said earlier, initially this seems insane, but you'll see it working in a short time. It's best learned with a teacher who uses the concept.

P.S. If you want to think in terms of B rather than Cb, it works the same way
2 on F, 4 on B of the G string. In the shift, 1 lands on F#.
B to C = 1/2
C to D = 1
D to E = 1
E to F# = 1
Either way, 1 goes 3 1/2 over 4

 

[ade]

is there no way to plan that passage so that you wind up with the first finger on the F on the A string ?

 

[Don Higdon]

No. What are you trying to accomplish and why?
If 3 is on Ab, 1 is on Ab on the A string.

 

[ade]

no, Don, I meant if 1 is on F on the A string it is an easier jump to 3 on Ab on the G string or maybe you don't agree.

 

[Don Higdon]

ade:
Bassturbasso's question was how to explain the specific shift from 2 on F on D to 3 on Ab on G and I answered it. The answer is not "Don't be on the D string to begin with".
Fingerings can't be determined in a vacuum; they are affected by the prior and following material. If you're going to tell me to start from F on A, you also have to tell me how and why your refingering of the preceding material is superior to the one written by Oscar Zimmerman, which puts the player at F on the D string.

 

[ade]

I'm afraid that if I jump 3 and a half positions I'll miss it. I know, I know....practise.

 

[basturbasso]

Don,
Thanks for the advice it was helpful. However a little complex, I did some researching of shifting technique and found something along the same line but a little less complex that has been a great help. It is a Stuart Sankey rule, shift with the last finger you played up the last string you played. So in my example I would just go from f with 2 to the half string harmonic with 2 and then cross and play 3 on Ab. Of coure I am haveing a little problem getting it smoothe but as far as hitting the note it has worked great. So as you can see it is similar to your way just instead of always using 1 and 4 as referance you just use the last finger you played. Just thought some people on here might be interested in this little tid bit of info.

 

[Anon2962]

One could argue about "wrong", but the reality is that your scale may have been very honestly in tune, but the meter only knows how to read notes that fit into the equal temperament system (unless you have a relaly expensive model that changes tempereaments) - and Equal Temp. is really racously out-of-tune!

You're actually **uncorrecting** your scale just to please a "silly little meter"!

Well, this is not completely true - isn't it the case that octaves 4ths and 5ths are perfect, and therefore the use of the metronome while practicing justified, if only for these notes of the scale?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I was thinking about this old thread (and also Don's participation in it, RIP) today while practicing 2 octave Ab7 arpeggios up and down. One thing that I've been focusing on lately is the idea of the "weighted shift" with extra pressure into the board when making descending shifts. In some way that I can't quite describe, keeping the extra weight into the board keeps me more centered and less likely to overshoot the shift. Anybody else notice this on this subject?

 

[richfirstbass]

Chris,
Thanks for bringing this forward. I learned something today from Higdon's posts. After I thought about it for a bit, it seems like a logical and useful technique. Basically, a sign post for a long trip.
As for your extra pressure question, perhaps it's effective because in doing so you're focused/aware on how far your finger is moving on the string. Even if you always keep your finger on the string while shifting, sometimes it's so much of a (good) habit, we forget we play that way to have a reliable way to calibrate the distance. Perhaps the resulting confidence in the shift contributes your feeling of being centered?

Lovely cat by the way....