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Whatever the solution is, you'll have been successful when the cat no longer hauls ass out of the room.
Hopkins
Commercial User
MDBass
Supporting Member
- Nov 7, 2012
- 8,590
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- Endorsing Artist: Dingwall-Fender-Bergantino-Dunlop-Tech 21-Darkglass-Nordstrand
1. That amount of buzz is definitely not acceptable.
2. You'd absolutely hear that in the studio, it'll actually be even more noticeable.
3. If it only buzzes like that on the first fret, more than likely the first fret is a bit too low or the second fret is a bit too high; it has nothing to do with the nut slots or the saddle height.
4. You may be able to remedy it by loosening the truss rod, adding some relief to the neck; try a quarter turn counter clockwise.
5. However, if it is a fret height issue as it seems to be (and you just purchased it new from a dealer) I'd exchange it for one that doesn't have this issue.
Good luck!
No setup is going to fix high/low frets or a low/high nut. Fixing those issues require actual work and I would not expect a typical setup to address this. What I would expect, is that whoever did the setup was competent enough to discover and notify me of any potential mechanical issues and give me options on how and whether to fix it or not as well as a detailed description of the issue and why it needs to be addressed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Hopkins
Commercial User
Lets clear some things up.
First, it buzzes out on the fretted note, not the open note. That rules out a nut issue.
Secondly, it is highly unlikely that the entire first fret is too low, or the entire second fret is too high, though if this is a brand new instrument a fret job may not be the worst idea. Your main issue IMHO is going to be that your neck is in a slight back bow due to a humidity change. Fret issues usually only occur on one or two strings, on one or two frets, not uniformly across the board.
First, it buzzes out on the fretted note, not the open note. That rules out a nut issue.
Secondly, it is highly unlikely that the entire first fret is too low, or the entire second fret is too high, though if this is a brand new instrument a fret job may not be the worst idea. Your main issue IMHO is going to be that your neck is in a slight back bow due to a humidity change. Fret issues usually only occur on one or two strings, on one or two frets, not uniformly across the board.
Before even worrying about why it's buzzing, check to0o see if it is properly intonated. That will tell you in most cases both exactly what is wrong and the simplest way to fix it.
Good action and well intonated? Nut height.
High action poorly intonated? Start by lowering the saddles.
High action and intonation is off but uniformly off? Truss rod moved during shipping.
A lot of major retailers offer setups with their instruments, but few of them mean the same thing that a luthier would mean by "setup". Example, at my local GC a setup seems to be action adjustment and intonation ($70). At my local mom 'n pop, it's action, intonation, nut adjustment, and PLEK treatment which apparently includes both fretwork and fretboard planing from what I gather ($200).
You may need some of article #2, but I doubt you received much outside of article #1.
Good action and well intonated? Nut height.
High action poorly intonated? Start by lowering the saddles.
High action and intonation is off but uniformly off? Truss rod moved during shipping.
A lot of major retailers offer setups with their instruments, but few of them mean the same thing that a luthier would mean by "setup". Example, at my local GC a setup seems to be action adjustment and intonation ($70). At my local mom 'n pop, it's action, intonation, nut adjustment, and PLEK treatment which apparently includes both fretwork and fretboard planing from what I gather ($200).
You may need some of article #2, but I doubt you received much outside of article #1.
If it buzzes when you fret the first fret you probably have a high fret somewhere right after it. You paid for a setup, not a fret leveling job unfortunately. The fret leveling job would fix it most likely but this is not normally included in a setup.
Anyway, buzz still happens after a setup from time to time. Every bass out there that has frets on it will get buzz if you lower the strings too much. Higher quality basses can get lower action without buzz but even they have a limit.
I have basses that were Plek'd, which gets the fret levels exactly right down to the micrometer. They still buzz if I set my action too low or play too hard, even after a perfect setup otherwise.
Technique is how I solve buzz problems. Try to play with a lighter touch, make sure your nails are cut, and turn your volume up.
Then again, there are also bassists that keep low action and just deal with the buzz. The way they get around hearing it is by EQing the buzz out at their amp. Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers is an example of a bassist that does this.
Next Morning: Answering to all posts……
No luck the bass did not magically fix it’s own issue over night.
Phone Rang: It was the sales man. Sounded a bit shocked there was an issue with the bass. He’s seen the video and is going to have the tech department contact me and get it sorted out…Somehow. Will follow up with me next week.
Continuing….
The strings are put on fine and the bass was totally in tune when I got it out of the box and the box and bass acclimated to the new clement for 9 hours. Got it before i left for work did not open till I got home and video taped that just in case.
Phone rang it’s the tech!
Well no need to answer anymore questions here but I will address a few. The guy took a look at the video and it’s the nut, something that makes total sense. They will have it shipped back and fixed. I told the guy lets up grade the nut to something good and he said I’d be charged if it was up graded and I says that’s fine I just want a good bass to be great.
That said some good advice here. Some also really bad advice. Such as suggesting the bass could get that far out of whack after a professional set up. Can that happen? Yes, is it likely? Not likely. Not to this degree. I had a bass stored in a room for 12 years before I had it set up. It played fine before 1999. Was the set up out of whack? You bet, was it anything like this jackson? Not at all.
As for learning my own set ups. I got a P bass used that was messed up a bit with the neck. I did a full set up on it and it’s action sucked and was not playable. I took it to the local pro and he did his best on it. I got it back with a warning that the neck was so bad it can;t be set up any better then was done by the pro. I played it and could not tell any difference. I guess I did not do so bad but I paid for this because I wanted it done right. I could always fine tune any issues. But not a bad nut. I can do my own set ups but I won’t know if there are larger issues like a messed up neck for example.
<<One question was did I actually pay for a set up? Yes I forked out the cash. Did I actually get one? Good question since I wonder how it got out the door like that.
What kind of bass? If it's a cheaper bass it's likely that one fret may be a bit higher than others. A set up would not fix this.
A properly done professional setup certainly SHOULD.>> <— I agree with this, it’s a no brainer.
<<If the guy setting it up has a lighter touch, it may have been fine to him>>
Anyone can play this bass and you would get fret buzz. That was not the case. The level of buzz makes that clear. It’s clearly heard.
<<go to an automobile parts shop like O'Reilly Autoparts and buy some automotive feeler gauges like Invalid Link Removed. Next buy a 6 inch ruler that measures mm and 32nds (preferably 64ths of an inch) sort of like Invalid Link Removed. Now get a capo. You will also need appropriately sized allen wrenches and phillips head screwdrivers. All this stuff probably will run you like $40 bucks tops.>>
I got everything but the 6 inch scale. I can’t seem to find one. If you know where I can get one on line let me know.
<<No setup is going to fix high/low frets or a low/high nut. Fixing those issues require actual work and I would not expect a typical setup to address this. What I would expect, is that whoever did the setup was competent enough to discover and notify me of any potential mechanical issues and give me options on how and whether to fix it or not as well as a detailed description of the issue and why it needs to be addressed. Nothing more, nothing less.>>
That is what I am thinking. The Sales person seemed like a deer caught in the head lights. I think he wondered the same thing.
The bass was in tune and intonation was fine. Like someone said it should not have went out the door like this. I paid for a set up not a nut fix but basses with that kind of issue should be flagged by QC department. Sales guy was clear, I wanted a bass in perfect cosmetic condition and in working order ready to play.
Thanks for all the replies guys. You may rerun to normal programing at this time
(jokes and derailing encouraged. )
PS, no need to play any other fret in a video. NO frets buzz at all but the first frets.
No luck the bass did not magically fix it’s own issue over night.
Phone Rang: It was the sales man. Sounded a bit shocked there was an issue with the bass. He’s seen the video and is going to have the tech department contact me and get it sorted out…Somehow. Will follow up with me next week.
Continuing….
The strings are put on fine and the bass was totally in tune when I got it out of the box and the box and bass acclimated to the new clement for 9 hours. Got it before i left for work did not open till I got home and video taped that just in case.
Phone rang it’s the tech!
Well no need to answer anymore questions here but I will address a few. The guy took a look at the video and it’s the nut, something that makes total sense. They will have it shipped back and fixed. I told the guy lets up grade the nut to something good and he said I’d be charged if it was up graded and I says that’s fine I just want a good bass to be great.
That said some good advice here. Some also really bad advice. Such as suggesting the bass could get that far out of whack after a professional set up. Can that happen? Yes, is it likely? Not likely. Not to this degree. I had a bass stored in a room for 12 years before I had it set up. It played fine before 1999. Was the set up out of whack? You bet, was it anything like this jackson? Not at all.
As for learning my own set ups. I got a P bass used that was messed up a bit with the neck. I did a full set up on it and it’s action sucked and was not playable. I took it to the local pro and he did his best on it. I got it back with a warning that the neck was so bad it can;t be set up any better then was done by the pro. I played it and could not tell any difference. I guess I did not do so bad but I paid for this because I wanted it done right. I could always fine tune any issues. But not a bad nut. I can do my own set ups but I won’t know if there are larger issues like a messed up neck for example.
<<One question was did I actually pay for a set up? Yes I forked out the cash. Did I actually get one? Good question since I wonder how it got out the door like that.
What kind of bass? If it's a cheaper bass it's likely that one fret may be a bit higher than others. A set up would not fix this.
A properly done professional setup certainly SHOULD.>> <— I agree with this, it’s a no brainer.
<<If the guy setting it up has a lighter touch, it may have been fine to him>>
Anyone can play this bass and you would get fret buzz. That was not the case. The level of buzz makes that clear. It’s clearly heard.
<<go to an automobile parts shop like O'Reilly Autoparts and buy some automotive feeler gauges like Invalid Link Removed. Next buy a 6 inch ruler that measures mm and 32nds (preferably 64ths of an inch) sort of like Invalid Link Removed. Now get a capo. You will also need appropriately sized allen wrenches and phillips head screwdrivers. All this stuff probably will run you like $40 bucks tops.>>
I got everything but the 6 inch scale. I can’t seem to find one. If you know where I can get one on line let me know.
<<No setup is going to fix high/low frets or a low/high nut. Fixing those issues require actual work and I would not expect a typical setup to address this. What I would expect, is that whoever did the setup was competent enough to discover and notify me of any potential mechanical issues and give me options on how and whether to fix it or not as well as a detailed description of the issue and why it needs to be addressed. Nothing more, nothing less.>>
That is what I am thinking. The Sales person seemed like a deer caught in the head lights. I think he wondered the same thing.
The bass was in tune and intonation was fine. Like someone said it should not have went out the door like this. I paid for a set up not a nut fix but basses with that kind of issue should be flagged by QC department. Sales guy was clear, I wanted a bass in perfect cosmetic condition and in working order ready to play.
Thanks for all the replies guys. You may rerun to normal programing at this time
(jokes and derailing encouraged. )PS, no need to play any other fret in a video. NO frets buzz at all but the first frets.
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A "setup" included with a new instrument should not end with this amount of buzz. And any professional setup might not INCLUDE alterations to a fret, but they would definitely give you the option of a less-than-optimal setup so as to avoid the root cause of the buzz or of paying for a proper fix of that root cause to then allow an optimal setup. No completed setup should have that level of buzzing without a detailed conversation and options for next steps from the tech. But back to your scenario, for a new instrument and including a setup, I would consider this bass unacceptable and return it or work out some arrangement with the seller/vendor.
The buzz itself -- a key thing missing from the vid is that you never play a note on the 2nd fret. So the buzzing you're getting could be caused by the strings hitting the second OR third frets. So there's a chance it's a relief issue (which could be the result of climate effects during shipping), but it could also be a fret issue. Just adding relief and eliminating the buzz is not the best result because you could be sacrificing better playability up the neck.
If I were you, I would not consider the guitar as delivered to be in reasonable condition, much less after I paid for an additional setup service. Call the seller, make a new video that also has you playing at the second fret, send it to the seller, and see what they say. Best result would be having a local tech take care of it and having the seller cover the cost. Safer result for the seller would probably be to send you a new bass that doesn't have this problem.
Good luck!
The buzz itself -- a key thing missing from the vid is that you never play a note on the 2nd fret. So the buzzing you're getting could be caused by the strings hitting the second OR third frets. So there's a chance it's a relief issue (which could be the result of climate effects during shipping), but it could also be a fret issue. Just adding relief and eliminating the buzz is not the best result because you could be sacrificing better playability up the neck.
If I were you, I would not consider the guitar as delivered to be in reasonable condition, much less after I paid for an additional setup service. Call the seller, make a new video that also has you playing at the second fret, send it to the seller, and see what they say. Best result would be having a local tech take care of it and having the seller cover the cost. Safer result for the seller would probably be to send you a new bass that doesn't have this problem.
Good luck!
I really don't see how if can be the nut. As soon as you fret the string at the first fret, the nut is out of the picture for the vibrating portion of the string.
Smooth_bass88
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- Oct 31, 2006
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Sadly, I think you're being misled and are about to shell out unnecessary money -- BUT you will probably end up with an instrument that you'll be happy with, so you might not care.
There's no way this issue was the result of a low QUALITY nut, so I'm not sure what value you'll get from upgrading (did you request bone, or something else?).
I thought the buzzing you were concerned about was at the :23 mark -- but that buzz happens when you have the note fretted, so, as a few people pointed out, the nut can't be the culprit. Once you fret a note, the nut isn't dictating the level of the string between your fretted note and the bridge. But really, it's not a big issue as long as they fix the problem before they send it back -- I just strongly suspect they'll do something like slap the neck in a fret press and tamp down the 2nd and 3rd frets...or all of them. But hey, if it's on their dime, all that matters is getting it back in better shape.
Further Good Luck!
Then the open note would buzz, not when you fret at the first fret.
But once you fret a note, you could also remove the nut entirely and the note would sound fine. You could remove the nut, capo the first fret and it would play fine -- there are zero-fret instruments where the nut isn't much more than a string-guide.
This. One of the most important lessons I've learned over the pet 5 years of seriously playing again (I've played in varying levels of interest for 30+) is that setups should be personal and, for the most part you should be able to do a fairly straight forward setup yourself. If I can't get it to my liking or expectations, then I go to my local guy and before I leave, I test it. It's impossible to expect anything other than "factory specs" from a drop and pickup set up. A good set up is factory specs adjusted to you.
Well that is what they said. I am sure they will take a closer look at it in person.
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