Is Genz Benz Neox-112T mismatched with Shuttle 6.0?

[N. Kentucky Bass]

I bought a "like new" Genz Benz Neox-112T off of eBay thinking it would be a good match for my new GB Shuttle 6.0. The cab arrived today, so I eagerly plugged in at low volume and delighted in the wonderful tone -- except for a faint but clear buzzing that occurred when plucking notes on the E string. I moved the speaker around to several spots in the room thinking it might be a sound reflection, a buzz in furniture, or something else but alas, the buzzing was still there in the speaker. I could hear it more clearly the closer my ear got to the speaker. I was even able to record the noise with an AKG condenser mic so this was not in my imagination.

I assumed the speaker had a problem and requested to return the cab to the seller. He refused, his argument being "You purchased a speaker cabinet rated at 300watts @8ohms maxiumum input. Then you purchased an Amplifier rated at 375watts output into 8 ohms." I guess he was accusing me of being stupid. In my defense, I was extremely careful trying this cab out and never raised preamp or master volume past 25% so I can't see how his argument holds water.

Unless there is a built-in buzz due to the "overpowered" amp.

Am I going crazy? Was I wrong to purchase just one Neox-112T? Will the buzz go away if I buy a second cab and run the two together? I thought one would work fine. Anyone know what might be up with this situation? I'm a 3.5 hour drive away from the nearest decent Benz dealer so getting service will cost a small fortune counting my (non-billable) time and gas. Any help on understanding technical options would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[buffordbass]

Unfortunately I had the same thing happen. ..
but to answer your question - NO, you wont kill the 112 with the 6.0 unless you hear it coming a long way off. You will have clip lights and distortion... shoot Dennis even played his 1200 through the 112 to see if he COULD blow it up... and didn't!!
The cab I bought used sounded fine at low volume, but bumping up to about mid-range is rattled. I ordered a replacement speaker from Genz and the rest is history. In fact, I just sold my 3.08T combo and ordered a 2nd 6.0 head to go with my dual 112's and 212. Now I'll have small, medium, large and OH MY GOODNESS. Quite a modular rig!!

 

[bongomania]

There is no way in heck the 375W versus 300W ratings "argument" holds water. The seller is being a jerk to you- out of ignorance at a minimum, but possibly even knowing beforehand that there was a buzz issue.

 

[thejohnkim]

I agree. The seller is trying to screw you over big time. I'm thinking he sold you a defective cab on purpose.

 

[fdeck]

Do you have any other heads / cabs around that you could try the mix 'n' match with? One possible source of buzz is an air leak in the speaker. Also, did you try separating the amp and cab, in case there is a rattle in the amp?

Try recording the E string so you can have your hands free while poking around the speaker. Two areas for air leaks are the driver gasket & screw holes, and an un-plugged 1/4 inch input jack.

And I agree that the seller can't accuse you of blowing this speaker.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Do you have any other heads / cabs around that you could try the mix 'n' match with? One possible source of buzz is an air leak in the speaker. Also, did you try separating the amp and cab, in case there is a rattle in the amp?

Try recording the E string so you can have your hands free while poking around the speaker. Two areas for air leaks are the driver gasket & screw holes, and an un-plugged 1/4 inch input jack.

And I agree that the seller can't accuse you of blowing this speaker.

I placed the amp on the floor during the tests. I also placed the cab in different places on my studio's tile floor, on a carpet, and in a chair -- same buzz behavior in all situations.

Are driver gasket/screw holes the screws that hold the speaker on the cab housing? I guess the speaker grill needs to come off for that one.

I have a pair of David Eden D112XLTs that do not exhibit the same buzz. On the other hand, I have plugs in both quarter inch jacks on both of those speakers. It sounds like you are suggesting that Benz speakers suffer the same deficiency and need to have the unused jacks plugged? (I use Speakon connectors for all cab links.)

How much does a Benz 112 speaker cost and is it easy to do that swap without sending the cab into the shop?

 

[Vinny D]

Try doing the simple things first like making sure all the screws are tight on everything and also plug the unused 1/4" speaker jacks.
If there is still a buzz sound then you may want to take a closer look at the speaker itself and see if you notice any crease markings on the cone itself, if you notice any creasing on the paper cone then that is where your buzzing sound is coming from.

 

[svtb15]

If you have the grill off.. gently push the cone in and out with even pressure on opposite side of the speaker.. listen carefully to see if you notice any rubbing sounds... i wonder if you got a bad speaker from the seller...

 

[lbwdog]

When a situation such as this arises, you just need to do a little troubleshooting. The process of elimination comes into play here.
First, using the same amp and bass, determine what notes (frequencies) are producing the sound. Start with your open E and move up one fret at a time. Make note of what "notes" are causing it. If it buzzes when playing an "A" on the "E" string's fifth fret, see if it still does it when playing the same note on a different string. (Such as an open "A" string.) If it goes away, the culprit is most likely the bass.

If not, change basses anyway and see if it does it with the different bass. If it still does;

Try a different amp head and if the noise continues, double check it with the second bass anyway. If the buzz persists with two different basses and two amps, then it's coming from the speaker cab.

As fdeck suggested, a recording of the most offending note will be helpful at this point, so your hands will be free to experiment. You can also use some type of tone generator such as a keyboard, with something to hold the offending note's key down. Press on the grill at different points and see if it stops.

If not, get out your screwdriver and check all exposed screws (not the actual speaker mounting screws just yet), such as handles, corners, crossover jack plate etc.

Next, remove the grill completely, if possible, and see if it stops.

If it doesn't, now you can check the speaker itself. As suggested before, move the cone in and out carefully using equal pressure with your thumbs on both sides of the woofer. (Do this with the amp turned off) If you hear a rubbing sound or feel a roughness while doing this, you probably have a bad speaker. If not loosen all the speaker mounting screws a bit so that you can re tighten them properly.

Be very careful with the next step and remember, tightening these screws is similar to changing a flat tire. There should be equal torque around the speaker. Be careful to not over tighten! Start with one screw (let's say the top one) and get it semi snug, then do the same on the direct opposite side (bottom). Now do the same on the left side, then directly opposite on the right side. REMEMBER, you're just getting them semi snug at this point. Repeat this pattern around the speaker, using opposite sides each time. When you get all eight screws semi snug, go back to your starting point and repeat this whole procedure tightening each screw a little at a time until they are all snug. BTW, check the screws that mount the tweeter or compression horn for snugness. After making sure they are all snug, check to see if the buzz is still there.

If so, I would then remove the woofer entirely to see if there is a slack wire resting on the back side of the cone, or a rogue screw or other debris inside the cab that could be buzzing in sympathy with the offending note. Also, inspect the magnet throughly for a metal object that could've been picked up by the magnet.

Replace the woofer using the sequence described above and check it for the buzz again. If it is still there, you should probably get it to a tech for professional checkout. It could be one of three components, the woofer, tweeter or crossover.

Trust me, I recently experienced a similar situation with my Carvin LS 1503 and only after doing all the above steps three or four times, I got the buzz out. The original problem seems to have been the crossover, but even after receiving a new crossover assembly, it took those three or four times of tightening and loosening and re tightening before the"buzz" was eliminated.

Good luck!!

 

[tolson36]

It's also possible if it's newer that it just needs breaking in. Had one like that that disappeared after awhile. The accordian stuff at the edges can be too stiff (possibly from the rubberized paint they put on them) and needs to break-in.

The torque on the screws can be a problem as someone mentioned. If one is tighter than the others it can bend the speaker slightly out of shape causing distortion.

the length of the wire leads from the connection block that run through the cone can cause this too---they can be either too long or they can run through the speaker at too much at an angle (from 90 degrees straight-in) causing the lead to flap against the cone and cause buzzing----anywhere from 45-90 is probably ok

ok--that open 1/4 jack always gets me too---I use a pencil eraser to keep it plugged--perfect size

another thing that usually doesn't sound like you are describing but is something that some complain about is chuffing---usually just on the lower notes at volume. But that's only when the port is undersized. As I recall, that speaker has plenty of port area.

wouldn't that still be under warranty? Genz warranty is transferable if the original owner gives you the original receipt. 3 years maybe? if no receipt--perhaps the serial number could prove a manufacture date acceptable to prove it's still under warranty. I thought that was a pretty new speaker for Genz so it probably hasn't even been out for longer than 3 years. I can't imagine them not honoring it if there's no question you are within warranty.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

This is new territory for me so I appreciate all your detailed suggestions. I'll start detective work today and will report later on results / outcome. Thanks again!

 

[agedhorse]

When a situation such as this arises, you just need to do a little troubleshooting. The process of elimination comes into play here.
First, using the same amp and bass, determine what notes (frequencies) are producing the sound. Start with your open E and move up one fret at a time. Make note of what "notes" are causing it. If it buzzes when playing an "A" on the "E" string's fifth fret, see if it still does it when playing the same note on a different string. (Such as an open "A" string.) If it goes away, the culprit is most likely the bass.

If not, change basses anyway and see if it does it with the different bass. If it still does;

Try a different amp head and if the noise continues, double check it with the second bass anyway. If the buzz persists with two different basses and two amps, then it's coming from the speaker cab.

As fdeck suggested, a recording of the most offending note will be helpful at this point, so your hands will be free to experiment. You can also use some type of tone generator such as a keyboard, with something to hold the offending note's key down. Press on the grill at different points and see if it stops.

If not, get out your screwdriver and check all exposed screws (not the actual speaker mounting screws just yet), such as handles, corners, crossover jack plate etc.

Next, remove the grill completely, if possible, and see if it stops.

If it doesn't, now you can check the speaker itself. As suggested before, move the cone in and out carefully using equal pressure with your thumbs on both sides of the woofer. (Do this with the amp turned off) If you hear a rubbing sound or feel a roughness while doing this, you probably have a bad speaker. If not loosen all the speaker mounting screws a bit so that you can re tighten them properly.

Be very careful with the next step and remember, tightening these screws is similar to changing a flat tire. There should be equal torque around the speaker. Be careful to not over tighten! Start with one screw (let's say the top one) and get it semi snug, then do the same on the direct opposite side (bottom). Now do the same on the left side, then directly opposite on the right side. REMEMBER, you're just getting them semi snug at this point. Repeat this pattern around the speaker, using opposite sides each time. When you get all eight screws semi snug, go back to your starting point and repeat this whole procedure tightening each screw a little at a time until they are all snug. BTW, check the screws that mount the tweeter or compression horn for snugness. After making sure they are all snug, check to see if the buzz is still there.

If so, I would then remove the woofer entirely to see if there is a slack wire resting on the back side of the cone, or a rogue screw or other debris inside the cab that could be buzzing in sympathy with the offending note. Also, inspect the magnet throughly for a metal object that could've been picked up by the magnet.

Replace the woofer using the sequence described above and check it for the buzz again. If it is still there, you should probably get it to a tech for professional checkout. It could be one of three components, the woofer, tweeter or crossover.

Trust me, I recently experienced a similar situation with my Carvin LS 1503 and only after doing all the above steps three or four times, I got the buzz out. The original problem seems to have been the crossover, but even after receiving a new crossover assembly, it took those three or four times of tightening and loosening and re tightening before the"buzz" was eliminated.

Good luck!!

All good ideas... you must have some significant troubleshooting experience?

Also, does the buzz happen only as specific volumes or is it at all volumes?

It is possible it's a bad speaker, it's also possible the seller didn't know, or that it was damage that happened in shipping.

 

[hasbeen]

it's also possible the seller didn't know,

I love you West Coast guys....I'm from NYC.

 

[Fretlessboy]

The seller probobly knew and wanted to dump the cab... ok, there is my scepticism
As stated above, the 6.0 blowing the speaker, nah!!!!!!! Yes it's true I tried to push the limits of the neoX112 to its limit with the GBE1200... there is video on my youtube channel. Was I able to over stress it? NO !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Eublet]

I've had this happen several times with different brands. Had a buzz in an Eden 112xlt. I broke it in to fix it. Put it in a friends shop with a bass loop playing through it at farily loud volumes over night. Problem solved. Had another one that had to be replaced to get fixed. Had a GK 112 with a buzz that would go away if I pressed down on a particular spot of the rim. Tightening the screws didn't fix it. Putting a very thin wood shim underneath it did.

 

[hasbeen]

I've had this happen several times with different brands. Had a buzz in an Eden 112xlt. I broke it in to fix it. Put it in a friends shop with a bass loop playing through it at farily loud volumes over night. Problem solved. Had another one that had to be replaced to get fixed. Had a GK 112 with a buzz that would go away if I pressed down on a particular spot of the rim. Tightening the screws didn't fix it. Putting a very thin wood shim underneath it did.

that's exactly what I do....the loop thing, when I have a vibration in an amp or the room that is driving me crazy.

I have a Matchless Chieftan combo that has all sorts of tube rattles in it.....drives me nuts.

My Sadowsky SA200....I don't put it on top of the cab I'm playing.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Progress report: I tightened all screws on the cab. I then played a couple of CDs through the cab at moderate volume -- normal listening level. Then I plugged the bass in and the rattling sound was worse. Bass volume was low for that test. All buzzing/rattling was generated by play on the E string.

I removed the grill. Interestingly, there was a fair amount of dust covering the inside bottom edge of the cab behind the grill, so the seller lied when he claimed "This piece has lived in the box in the corner of my studio." The outside surface of the cab is in near-new shape so it was probably used in his studio, as claimed. But given his misrepresentations, I would not be surprised if he knew about the buzz/rattle. Anyway, to continue -- all four speaker screws were tight.

Placing thumb and forefinger of both hands gently on the center cone, I slowly moved the speaker in and out and hear a rubbing sound. I removed all four speaker screws and the speaker doesn't budge so I'm not sure how to get it out and check behind.

So I'm at an impass. It's looking like this situation will not fix itself, as hopefully suggested above. Would anyone from Genz Benz have suggestions for a next step? The seller did not provide an orginal sales receipt but he bought the cab at Springfield Music in Springfield, MO. The original box says the cab was shipped there from Kaman Music in Ontario, CA.

I just ordered another Neox-112T from Musician's Friend and hope that will arrive in good shape. Meanwhile, I just want to get this puppy into working order. Thanks, all for your interest in this sad saga.

 

[agedhorse]

Give Scott a call at the factory and he'll walk you through whatever needs to be done to get your repair taken care of.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Give Scott a call at the factory and he'll walk you through whatever needs to be done to get your repair taken care of.

Thanks. I got an RA and he told me how to pry out the speaker to ship back to the factory. For those of you who are interested, I shot pics of the inside of this cab.

 

[tolson36]

looks like a deltalite 2512

if so, do a search--there were other brands "Schroeder?" that use this speaker and had a similar problem in isolated cases