Is he swinging?

[Ricky Caboverde]

“Swing” is a narrowly defined term, at least in jazz education, referring to treatment of two eighth notes as three triplets with two of them tied.

In practice, players emphasize or deemphasize that effect according to the feel of the tune. Drummer friends of mine refer to a feel called “in the crack” as a very deemphasized swing feel, for example, where the drummer can play that feel beneath the rest of the band playing straight 8ths, lending a subtle shuffle.

But “swing” definitely means a certain thing.

Thanks for that! I had thought as much, and when looking online I see references to that triplet feel. I guess I misspoke when I wrote folks were arguing over "something that hasn't been defined." It just seems that there are differing opinions on to what constitutes "swing" feel.

 

[WG Plum]

I love Janek Gwizdala’s playing and I know for sure he can swing. But swing lives in the 8th notes, and since he plays few of them in that clip it’s hard to tell.

This was my reaction, too.

 

[Altitude]

Thanks for that! I had thought as much, and when looking online I see references to that triplet feel. I guess I misspoke when I wrote folks were arguing over "something that hasn't been defined." It just seems that there are differing opinions on to what constitutes "swing" feel.

Well, I thought about what I’d written there and I think the eights = triplets definition holds but there is a lot of room for fudging in a group where everyone is aware of the rules and whether they are choosing to bend them.

Check out this tune by Steve Morse Band, called “Cruise Missile.” One of the reasons I love it is that the drummer seems to be swinging for the entire tune, Steve himself sometimes is and other times isn’t, and the tempo is fast enough that it’s hard to tell, and the bass player Jerry Peek plays an iconic bass part that is 100% not swung. But then late in the song he takes a solo that is. Mayhem!

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Janek’s bass lines does not really swing to my ears although the drummer is certainly swinging. That said, his playing is fine and fits the song.

Not exactly a rhythm pocket set up by the drummer for “swing”. The cymbals work my be swing but the bass drum part is decidedly not. The bassist is just going with what the drummer is giving him.

 

[The_Owl]

Janek’s bass lines does not really swing to my ears although the drummer is certainly swinging. That said, his playing is fine and fits the song.

I had no issue discerning the swing in his playing in that clip. Hard to tell most of the time since there’s a lot of half notes, but a lot of emphasized 2:s and 4:s, and the underlying triplet feeling was absolutely there. Again, swing is not exclusive to quarter note walking bass, it’s about subdivisions of that quarter note. There were a lot of syncopated rhythms in that song as well that wouldn’t have worked well with a traditional walking bass line. All in all a great clip, lovely playing and HUGE tone

 

[bass12]

Has anyone else noticed a trend whereby bassists get a lot more spasmodic in their head movements and facial expressions as soon as there is a camera on them?

 

[Altitude]

Has anyone else noticed a trend whereby bassists get a lot more spasmodic in their head movements and facial expressions as soon as there is a camera on them?

Gwizdala is very animated, for sure. He might take it to a level a bit beyond what I’d call necessary, but I appreciate the intent and I like what he does way better than when guys look at their feet the whole time and sway vaguely from side to side as they play.

 

[MuseChaser]

One other thing I meant to address in my previous digitally-diarrhetic post was the oft-mentioned misconception that to play jazz one needs to "lay back" or play behind the beat, and to stress 2 and 4. Those misconceptions probably stem from things we need to say as educators to young students who continuallly get excited and rush in order to get them to stop doing that. Yes, to be good at anything, you have to be in a mentally and physically "relaxed" state, but intentionally playing behind the beat will get you fired. A horn player, soloist, or horn section can get away with it, and even sound good doing so, for a few beats, but playing behind the beat as a non-soloing bassist is an unforgiveable sin. There's a comedic aphorism among sax players that "it is better to be sharp than out of tune," meaning that playing flat is far worse than being sharp. Same thing could be said in jazz, really, about tempo. Yes, rushing and dragging are both undesirable, but dragging is way worse. There's lots of famously recorded examples of great players ending up more than a few clicks faster at the end of a cut. Don't recall many where they ended up slower, except maybe a few ballads at crawling tempi.

As far as "stressing 2 and 4," at least in terms of a walking bass line and ride cymbal, no. Just, no. I'll refer you to Peter Erskine on that one. All four quarter notes should be as even as possible, and THE driving force behind all other decisions and playing. Wynton is fond of telling folks in clinics that not only should the ride cymbal and bass make sure the quarter notes are even, but that the combined VOLUME between the ride and bass should be 50/50, with each instrument being equally present. The stress on 2 an 4 comes from the high hat and from implied melodic inflection. The reason for telling folks to "stress 2 and 4" in the early years stems from a desire to impel the music forward, rather than landing on 1 all of the time which tends to "stop" forward motion.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

https://youtube.com/shorts/yadefQQVAzQ?si=IwxBMA_xluZa4KRK

Janek is getting a nice Jonathan Maron sort of groove here.

 

[The_Owl]

One other thing I meant to address in my previous digitally-diarrhetic post was the oft-mentioned misconception that to play jazz one needs to "lay back" or play behind the beat, and to stress 2 and 4. Those misconceptions probably stem from things we need to say as educators to young students who continuallly get excited and rush in order to get them to stop doing that. Yes, to be good at anything, you have to be in a mentally and physically "relaxed" state, but intentionally playing behind the beat will get you fired. A horn player, soloist, or horn section can get away with it, and even sound good doing so, for a few beats, but playing behind the beat as a non-soloing bassist is an unforgiveable sin. There's a comedic aphorism among sax players that "it is better to be sharp than out of tune," meaning that playing flat is far worse than being sharp. Same thing could be said in jazz, really, about tempo. Yes, rushing and dragging are both undesirable, but dragging is way worse. There's lots of famously recorded examples of great players ending up more than a few clicks faster at the end of a cut. Don't recall many where they ended up slower, except maybe a few ballads at crawling tempi.

As far as "stressing 2 and 4," at least in terms of a walking bass line and ride cymbal, no. Just, no. I'll refer you to Peter Erskine on that one. All four quarter notes should be as even as possible, and THE driving force behind all other decisions and playing. Wynton is fond of telling folks in clinics that not only should the ride cymbal and bass make sure the quarter notes are even, but that the combined VOLUME between the ride and bass should be 50/50, with each instrument being equally present. The stress on 2 an 4 comes from the high hat and from implied melodic inflection. The reason for telling folks to "stress 2 and 4" in the early years stems from a desire to impel the music forward, rather than landing on 1 all of the time which tends to "stop" forward motion.

Yeah every single jazz teacher I’ve ever had told me to do that 2 and 4 thing, but I honestly always thought it sounded like crap, and that a lot of the music was lost. It can sound especially silly in slower tempos.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

I have no problem hearing the swing in Janek's lines. His quarters and halves are on top, and his grace notes are swung when they need to be. The straight 8ths can build rhythmic tension, which gets released when he does start swinging the grace notes again.

Intentional or not, I'd say he's taken a page out of the Anthony Jackson playbook. AJ will often play perfectly placed quarters and half notes under a swinging drummer. It all works in the context of the group sound, not always necessarily one instrument in isolation.

 

[tb-player]

I liked it.

 

[conttador]

Janek’s bass lines does not really swing to my ears although the drummer is certainly swinging. That said, his playing is fine and fits the song.

That sounds like broken swing to me… good stuff!!!

Broken swing is a thing…



Yes, he’s swinging, they’re all swinging…

 

[dedoonbass]

My ability to criticize him more than compensates for my shortcomings

 

[brianrost]

I hear Dave Holland play like that all the time, just saying. It’s not like Janek is playing with Duke Ellington here.

 

[Stranger Danger]

With that type of electric bass where the notes have long sustain and sound much clearer, I find it a bit more challenging to swing in the traditional sense where the swing is mostly provided by the upright bass (or an instrument where notes come out with much shorter sustain). For this kind of music, which I play 50-60% of the time, I prefer playing a Precision bass (rather than my 5-string Foderas) with flats and a mute at the bridge. That way I can attack the notes more aggressively and I definitely play in front of the beat, and I feel like the music swings much better. Of course, IMHO and IME...

Great point

 

[micguy]

Has anyone else noticed a trend whereby bassists get a lot more spasmodic in their head movements and facial expressions as soon as there is a camera on them?

If anything, I do the opposite- when I’m on camera, I focus even more on what I’m doing, which means less movement of ancillary parts.

 

[MichelD]

He needs a bass player.

 

[40Hz]

Nope. It’s technically polished but it doesn’t really have much of a swing feel to me.

I admire Janek’s bass playing. Own most of his instructional books. But to my ears he gets a little…dunno…academic sounding at times if that makes any sense?

That’s the problem I have with a lot of these technically accomplished bassists like Scott Devine, Janek Gwizdala, and Adam Neeley. They have these mad skills I’ll never have. But they somehow never resonate with me despite that. It’s not like when I go and listen to someone like Chris Brubeck, Marcus Miller or Nathan East and hear the perfect combination of chops and feel and walk away feeling inspired rather than just impressed.

Makes me sometimes wonder if it’s possible for some people to get so good at playing their instrument that their music begins to suffer a little bit.

 

[MuseChaser]

..
Makes me sometimes wonder if it’s possible to get so good at playing your instrument that the music begins to suffer a little bit.

I understand what you're saying, I think, but I don't think it's a question of the "music suffering," but rather going to places in the music that are of more interest to the performer than they are to a mass market audience. Some folks say that audiences have left jazz, while others say that jazz has left the audiences. Probably some truth to both.