• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Is It Frowned Upon?

Dodgeviperracer

Dodgeviperracer

C'est La Vie
Feb 2, 2009
99
0
Nashville, North Carolina
#1
I have been playing bass since I was 12, I am 27 now. I hope this isn't to disappointing but in all that time I've never learn how to read music, theory, and I'm just starting to learn my keys. Basically I play by ear. I can hang with the best of them, but I still don't feel my skills are complete without knowing all those things. I guess my question is: Is it frowned upon for not knowing these things? And secondly when it comes to bass I'm more of a visual learner. So could u recommend anything that u know of that could help me? Thanking you in advance for your advice.

David Cooper
 
#2
Frowned upon? Depends on the people you run with. In some jazz groups, if you couldn't talk harmony on the breaks, they wouldn't know what to talk about!

Let me get something out of the way first: amazing music can be composed and played without knowing the terms that define theory and harmony.

Still, we are multiple-sensory beings: You can "know" steak by touch, by smell, by talking about it, and by the actions of cooking it and serving it to others. But your experience of "steakness" will still be somewhat impoverished until you sit down and eat it.

In the same way, learning theory will enrich your understanding of music, and stimulate your brain to pop up new associations.

Learning theory can be a bit dry and abstract, taken by itself. I prefer to take it in smaller doses, in context. One-on-one lessons with a good teacher are my favorite way of taking it in.

If you prefer online sources, there are the usual culprits- Music DoJo, etc. I think Norm Stockton's excellent "Grooving for Heaven" videos include some theory content, as well as a ton of other bass-oriented information.
 
#4
David, see Ant's response in the other thread re this. You can get away with "ear" for a while. Heck I dropped lesson when I was 12 as he wasnt teaching much I needed to play Black Sabbath and Grand Funk! Same when I graduated to an adult band playing rock-a-billy when I was a teen. You dont think you need lessons when your ears are that good.

BUT, you're gonna hit a wall if you desire to continue to grow as a player. Inevitable. I'm there now ( I dropped bass from age 20 to 45).

Not to schill another teacher here, but I recetly enrolled in Adam Nitti's Improv course at Link Removed. Once I get some basics down, I can ask Adam or Ant to help me thru Skype to solidify my new knowledge.

My wake up, was seeing a pop chart at the local Weslean(sp?) church. I was a-scared, even though I really wanted to try my new "gospel" bass through their 8X10 SVT.

Dont know about you, but I dont operate at full steam unless I'm in a "circle of confidence".
 
#5
:hiding:I too am in the same boat. My ear has carried me to the point where the gigs I get are with professional musicians. I'm talking guys and gals who live, eat sleep music. I'm at the point where if I want to contuine to get gigs at this level I have to step my game up. It's grueling, sometimes boring but yes we have to go through now what the other cats did when they were younger. Despite their wealth of experience and knowlege they too are still learning. There is nothing more embarrassing than being on a gigor a practice and given a sheet to read and you can't. This will be a permanent motivator for you for the rest of you life.
 
#6
phillybass101 said:
:hiding:I too am in the same boat. My ear has carried me to the point where the gigs I get are with professional musicians. I'm talking guys and gals who live, eat sleep music. I'm at the point where if I want to contuine to get gigs at this level I have to step my game up. It's grueling, sometimes boring but yes we have to go through now what the other cats did when they were younger. Despite their wealth of experience and knowlege they too are still learning. There is nothing more embarrassing than being on a gigor a practice and given a sheet to read and you can't. This will be a permanent motivator for you for the rest of you life.
Click to expand...

So how do you navigate your bass? Do you know your keys? Remember patterns?
 
#9
sonofabass said:
I know this question was asked of Ant but, if I may chime in -

"knowing is always better than not knowing" ...I think a wise man named Anthony Wellington said that once or twice.


:)
Click to expand...

You guys are absolutely right. In recent years I've learn that to play a greater level you really have to be knowledgeable across all spectrums as opposed to just picking up a bass and playing. The environment I was in as a young musician didn't really require you to be trained it just required that you sound good which has left me handicap in alot of ways. It was a very competitive atmosphere. No one really wanted to share the things they knew because they were afraid of someone stopping their spot. Now that I'm older I get to play with an array of musicians who are more mature and willing to share the wealth. What do u think should be the next step for me? How do I go about learning theory and notes? Do I get an instructor? Web tutorials? Video? Somebody point me in the right direction.
 
#10
"Frowned upon" implies that someone ELSE disapproves, and that it matters.

I don't "frown upon" BB King for not knowing how to read music.
If Larry Graham couldn't read (I don't know) I wouldn't frown upon him, either.

If you're consistently landing gigs with the top musicians in the world, are creating a style that others try to emulate, or are producing music that is loved by and touches millions of people, in general you won't be "frowned upon" for what you lack. But most of us don't fit into any of those categories.

But a better question is - will it make you a better player? Will it help you get better gigs, play more styles of music, and allow you to work confidently in more situations and with better musicians?

And the answer to that is a resounding yes.

As far as being a visual learner - get some basic books on reading. You can start with Mel Bay. Once you know the notes (and it's not that difficult), get "Essential Sight Reading Studies for Electric Bass".
The best advice I got, when I decided that I wanted to learn to read, was "read 8 bars per day, every day". It's like pushups - if you do them regularly, you'll get stronger. If you just talk about wanting to get stronger, or about if you should get stronger... well, not much happens.

As far as theory - it's not that hard, really. PM me if you want - I have some very simple approaches to understanding Western music theory, but they're not written out. Or grab a book.

One other question that I'll ask in Anthony's place - do you really know the notes on your bass? (I've worked with Ant long enough to know - he'll ask. :D )
How long does it take you to finger every Eb on your bass? Are you sure that's all of them?

Music is a journey, not a destination. Enjoy the ride, and learn while you're on it.
 
#12
Dodgeviperracer said:
What do u think should be the next step for me? How do I go about learning theory and notes? Do I get an instructor? Web tutorials? Video? Somebody point me in the right direction.
Click to expand...

I'm just a beginner, but I'd say all of the above.

Ricci Adams' Musictheory.net is a great web resource as are music theory articles on Wikipedia. However, in-person lessons I've gotten from Anothony and Jonathan Herrera have made sense of what I've found online and the stuff I read online has let me explore what I've learned in lessons.
 
#13
I learned theory in highschool music class a long time ago. I actually tied with another student for the top marks in the class. But as time went by, I focused more on learning songs by ear, and sort of lost that skill over time. I can still pick something up and read, but I've become quite rusty. Sheet music is a language in itself and you'll forget that language if you don't maintain some practice.
 
#14
I have a maintenance routine of stuff that I do every day. Reading a page of music is one of the 5 things in my maintenance routine. The key is to not go backwards.

If you get good at shooting free throws,..,let's day 95%. If you take 6 months off and then starting shooting free throws again,...you probably won't be at 95%. Probably not even close. So it's a good idea to shoot them every day. Even if you only do enough to maintain where you are you won't go backwards.

peace,
anthony
 
#15
Ant Wellington said:
I have a maintenance routine of stuff that I do every day. Reading a page of music is one of the 5 things in my maintenance routine. The key is to not go backwards.

If you get good at shooting free throws,..,let's day 95%. If you take 6 months off and then starting shooting free throws again,...you probably won't be at 95%. Probably not even close. So it's a good idea to shoot them every day. Even if you only do enough to maintain where you are you won't go backwards.

peace,
anthony
Click to expand...

Just out of interest what does your daily maintenance consist of?
 
#16
Ant Wellington said:
I have a maintenance routine of stuff that I do every day. Reading a page of music is one of the 5 things in my maintenance routine. The key is to not go backwards.

If you get good at shooting free throws,..,let's day 95%. If you take 6 months off and then starting shooting free throws again,...you probably won't be at 95%. Probably not even close. So it's a good idea to shoot them every day. Even if you only do enough to maintain where you are you won't go backwards.

peace,
anthony
Click to expand...
There's a story that Putte Wickman (one of the finest Jazz clarinetists there ever was) said that if he skipped playing one day he would notice how it affected his playing. If he skipped playing for three days the audience would notice.

This is absolutely true, and I think most of us have seen the effects. The step from knowing it to doing something about it is definitely something that sets the professional apart from the amateur.
 
#17
Hey Fishbrain,

My practice regimen and my maintenance routine are separate things. My practice regimen is what I do when I have time to get some 'good' work in. My maintenance routine is what i do on the days, like today, where I have to fly somewhere for whatever reason. Today I'm teaching from 9am to 1pm. Then I have to drive almost an hour home to do laundry and pack. Then I have to drive over an hour to the airport for a 9pm flight to Nashville. Today is a day that I'll spend at least 10 minutes doing my maintenance routine. It consist of 5 things that I'll try to do for at least 2 minutes apiece and in a very focused way. The 5 things are: (1)A dexterity exercise(usually one of the 24 variations), (2)a note recognition exercise(most bass players don't know the notes on their bass. They 'kinda' know them),(3) something theory related(a lot to choose from there), (4) ear training and (5) reading a page of music. I'll get that much in on days when most people won't touch their bass or work on music.

But I also have the good fortune of teaching bass for a living. And ALL players, beginner to advance, need to always work on fundamentals. So I get a lot of fundamental work in just from working with students everyday. That's why I know the notes on my bass so well(check out the youtube clip of one of my note recognition routines).

peace,
anthony

"Smells Like Funk"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back