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Is it wrong?

#182
BellBottomBlues said:
(Meanwhile, he couldn't improve)
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Assuming you meant "improvise", here we go again.

The supposition that Jaco could not improvise is largely based on [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] from Marcus Miller. I got myself into a real flame war on this topic a while back, because the guy on the other side of the argument was making up new definitions of the term "improvise" that, if used in this context, would not harm his personal mind image of Jaco's genius. It got frustrating and I eventually unsubscribed.

I have widely heard that Jaco's most notable solos were somewhat composed. However, the fact that he had monster chops is incontrovertible and nobody who lived in the scene as long as he did would completely lack the ability to blow. The conclusion I have arrived upon is that Jaco was uncomfortable with his own ability to construct a satisfyingly lyrical or melodic phrase on the spot. Emphasis on "uncomfortable with his own ability". I assume that he thought Marcus could do so better than he could, and therefore the comment.

Whether or not anyone can improvise (using the definition of the word that is 99.99% likely to be relevant when discussing jazz music) is of course a gray area. Ornette plays whatever he wants, chord structures be damned, and he is a legend.
 
#183
GlennW said:
Can any of you guys recommend some Jaco for someone new to his music?
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I don't listen to him much anymore, but I definitely went through my Jaco phase and I think it's important for every musician to be a student of his/her instrument. Jaco is one of the touchstones.

I'd recommend his self-titled debut album and Weather Report - 9:30 (a live album) and/or Heavy Weather (studio.) Also the tracks "Cannonball" and "Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" are really funky.

The thing about Jaco is, like a lot of other important musicians, he's almost too influential in the sense that a lot of people fall so hard for his sound that they never really develop their own unique styles. At least, that's my take on it.
 
#184
For the younger players who are understandably tired of hearing about this guy you know nothing about, I would suggest maybe checking out his work with Joni Mitchell. You'll hear how good he was at bringing something to a tune - Hejira or the live one would be good to check out. It might not be your favorite style of music, but the songs are well written and performed. You still might not like his style, but there's no denying he brings that music to life - which is what it's all about, isn't it? ;)
 
#185
WJGreer said:
Manring, though exceedingly talented and skilled, is not going to create a tremedous impact in the world of music after he is gone. He will be remembered as a great player in his time.
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I think we will have to find out if this is true when Mike is no longer with us(and I'm not being sarcastic).



WJGreer said:
Whether or not anyone can improvise (using the definition of the word that is 99.99% likely to be relevant when discussing jazz music) is of course a gray area. Ornette plays whatever he wants, chord structures be damned, and he is a legend.
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:)
 
#188
WJGreer said:
Plus, I should of course mention that, if Jaco were still alive, he might hate you too. ;)
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That may be true, but I believe that if he were still alive he probably would have put out 1 or 2 bad albums (like all artists do at sometime) and he wouldn't be on the pedistal that so many bassist put him on.

Back the the original statement... Jaco influenced a great many bassists. Maybe you weren't alive back then, I know I wasn't yet. Bassists that are playing today have learned from his style and have incorporated it in with their own style.

Truth be told, the world of bass playing has evolved without him. We have learned by his playing and now have surpassed him. It's human nature. Every generation will learn from the past and move forward.

My point being, you may not like him, but somebody you admire probably does/ did. So, you have learned from him... it's just second or third hand knowledge.
 
#189
Quinn said:
I'd recommend his self-titled debut album and Weather Report - 9:30 (a live album) and/or Heavy Weather (studio.) Also the tracks "Cannonball" and "Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" are really funky.
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+1 good points, Quinn. If I might be allowed to pick one small nit? The title of Weather Report's live album is an hour earlier; it's "8:30"! Don't be late to the show! LoL :bassist:

GlennW, also check out:
"Soul Intro/The Chicken" and "Domingo" from Birthday Concert
"Medley: Changes/Purple Haze/Simple Song" from Live In New York City Vol. 4 (sound quality not good on this recording)

Edit: To paraphrase what Tzer said back in #157, the reason that Jaco is relevant is because of not only WHAT he did, but WHEN he did it. You need to recognize the context that surrounded each artist when they presented their special contribution.
 
#190
FF Petro said:
That may be true, but I believe that if he were still alive he probably would have put out 1 or 2 bad albums (like all artists do at sometime) and he wouldn't be on the pedistal that so many bassist put him on.
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Interesting point. No pedestal here - Jaco was one messed up dude, and I would never want anything like his life, even if it came with his talents. One could assert that Jaco's "one or two bad albums" were his behavior in his final substance-abusing years.
 
#191
I'm in the Jaco,Wooten,Berlin,Sheehan and many other greats where i truely just dont care. I hate bass albums and wanking long solo's tapping and slapping and popping like a methed up monkey. IMO bass is the bottom and drives the engine...i like to play the same way. I do enjoy a short bass solo in a song and a bit of flair. But all the bass wanking ZZZZZZZZZZ for me.

Don,t get me wrong these guys are great players and props to them but give me Oakley thumping with the ABB or JPJ with Zepplin or Geezer with Sabbath thats the bass playing i enjoy what its all about stayin true and holding the groove. I laughed when i read Les Claypool say he has never listened to bass players albums and doesnt know alot of the famous players before him...hes quoted saying he doesnt care...and i for one agree with him. IMO are these statements :p
 
#192
WJGreer said:
Interesting point. No pedestal here - Jaco was one messed up dude, and I would never want anything like his life, even if it came with his talents. One could assert that Jaco's "one or two bad albums" were his behavior in his final substance-abusing years.
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Plus all the sub-bar boots that they recorded on his down slide and released after his death. If Jaco died a couple years into his career in a car accident like the great Scott Lafaro, maybe people would see his legacy a little different.
 
#193
bassbully43 said:
I'm in the Jaco,Wooten,Berlin,Sheehan and many other greats where i truely just dont care. I hate bass albums and wanking long solo's tapping and slapping and popping like a methed up monkey. IMO bass is the bottom and drives the engine...i like to play the same way. I do enjoy a short bass solo in a song and a bit of flair. But all the bass wanking ZZZZZZZZZZ for me.
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I guess you should actually listen to the albums Jaco plays on instead of judging him by the clips on YouTube.
 
#194
WJGreer said:
To this day, you can hear Jaco in the playing of others. Contrast this with a guy like Michael Manring, who is himself an enormous Jaco fan, a jaw-droppingly awesome player, and from what I can tell a really nice guy. Manring, though exceedingly talented and skilled, is not going to create a tremedous impact in the world of music after he is gone. He will be remembered as a great player in his time.
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That could be due to the fact that what Michael does is next to impossible to emulate due to the nature of the gear he uses. The average joe just can't get their hands on a Zon Hyperbass with the special bridge and piezo transducers in the body, neck and headstock.

Look at Wooten, he has really come to the front of modern bass playing in the past 16 years or so. Especially after 1996, he really took off. I can see he has had quite an impact on players, especially the younger generation. Maybe not the same bombast as Jaco, but you can still change the world and Victor will be remembered as a legend.
 

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