I bet you if you polled a lot of the people here on their age and years of experience, you'd find things lining up much this way. A lot of us have got that t-shirt and don't really want to deal with everything that came with it any more. You pay your dues and then you get lucky, or you get smarter.
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is live music dead
- Thread starter Ric5
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Disagree. I'm near 60, burned out on the cover band I was in a cuppla years ago within 3 months. The sacrifices include no real ability to play for an audience (S. Side of Chi - mebbe 2-3 venues that have original acts) other than friends, and the need to constantly re-group as musicians leave to find paying (or at least gigging) gigs, or just get tired of playing original stuff they didn't write (because they don't write) for no greater reward than fun and mebbe a recording. (Ain't that I'm bad or a jerk, BTW; I have had the same pretty good guitarist for the last 4-5 years, some guys have lasted 6 months ...)
So what. I'm paid up, dumb, happy and playing originals (with the odd bastardized cover).
Altho' we are staying home right now, of course.
So what. I'm paid up, dumb, happy and playing originals (with the odd bastardized cover).
Altho' we are staying home right now, of course.
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I'm in a Tom Petty tribute here in Central Massachusetts, and we've worked hard over the past eight years to build up a following. This year we were planning on playing bigger and better places, with gigs in Maine and New Hampshire, and even a wedding in downtown Boston. Now thanks to CV it's beginning to look like this year will be shot to hell. We'll probably have to look into rebuilding our following, but that's not my biggest worry. My biggest worry is our rehearsal room in Whitinsville. We've got enough money in the band kitty to pay the rent for a couple of months, but beyond that who knows? We depend on the income we make playing gigs to pay the rent and keep the band afloat, but without those gigs the future looks a bit problematic. I'm just afraid we might have to suspend all band operations for the rest of the year, and maybe longer, and go into hiatus. That might cost us all the goodwill we've built up over the years, and we just might be starting over again. I'm 66 years old, I'm not getting any younger, and the prospect of starting over again is daunting indeed. Guess we'll just see what happens, and react accordingly.
Live performance isn't dead, but it's certainly undergoing a shift, and has been for some time.
The way the world has always worked is that things, in general, are a fluid process. One idea takes hold and captivates the world for a period of time and everyone falls in line with that iteration. Then, as things begin to stagnate, some genius will figure out a way to turn the world upside-down, and connect with people in a manner that is previously unheard of. Think of daVinci, Tesla, Einstein, and Jimi Hendrix, et al. Then the world changes.
Right now we're in a stagnated period, awaiting the next great thing to fundamentally change the way music is integrated into our socialization. I'd like to think that this change will, once again, bring people together as a community with a common thirst for the magic that is music, and live, real-time performance of music.
Until then, it seems to me that the broad success live performance has enjoyed in my lifetime has been on a steady decline for some time, with odd pockets of uptick generally and regionally. It'll never go away completely, though, but who knows what will bring it back to the social dominance & vibrancy that was enjoyed in years past.
The late 1960s and early 1970s were absolutely out of control awesome. I caught the tail end of that wave. You could play 5 nights a week and make reasonable money - one week of gigs could pay the month's rent, and that's not even an A-list band. Can you imagine an 18-year-old bassist today pulling that kind of money gigging area pubs, bars & nightclubs?
The way the world has always worked is that things, in general, are a fluid process. One idea takes hold and captivates the world for a period of time and everyone falls in line with that iteration. Then, as things begin to stagnate, some genius will figure out a way to turn the world upside-down, and connect with people in a manner that is previously unheard of. Think of daVinci, Tesla, Einstein, and Jimi Hendrix, et al. Then the world changes.
Right now we're in a stagnated period, awaiting the next great thing to fundamentally change the way music is integrated into our socialization. I'd like to think that this change will, once again, bring people together as a community with a common thirst for the magic that is music, and live, real-time performance of music.
Until then, it seems to me that the broad success live performance has enjoyed in my lifetime has been on a steady decline for some time, with odd pockets of uptick generally and regionally. It'll never go away completely, though, but who knows what will bring it back to the social dominance & vibrancy that was enjoyed in years past.
The late 1960s and early 1970s were absolutely out of control awesome. I caught the tail end of that wave. You could play 5 nights a week and make reasonable money - one week of gigs could pay the month's rent, and that's not even an A-list band. Can you imagine an 18-year-old bassist today pulling that kind of money gigging area pubs, bars & nightclubs?
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If the definition of live music means playing for significant numbers of people and making a decent paycheck then its been dieing for some time and this isolation period could easily be the burial.
OTOH if live music occurs any time a few people get together and sing along with a couple of guitars I would say it's still alive and well
OTOH if live music occurs any time a few people get together and sing along with a couple of guitars I would say it's still alive and well
we did not start our band until we were close to 30. we did not do it to make a living off of it or to get famous, it was just a pure creative outlet. 11 years later we are still going strong. to pigeonhole original bands as kids with unrealistic dreams of making it big is a bit narrow sighted. we don't pay to play and the goal is not to play sold out shows to hoards of screaming fans. it feels good to create a catalouge of songs/albums that you can look back at and aporeciate the hard work you put in. when we finally bite the dust we'll leave something behind for, hopefully, a very long time for people to discover and enjoy.
i don't know about others, while I enjoy my day job,i certainly don't want it to define me or my life. with original music, i know i have cobtributed something to our history that i can be proud of and maybe my kids and future generations can appreciate and be proud of as well.
all that to say original bands does mot have to mean living in vans and playing to bar staffs on tuesday nights at your local ****hole.
s0c9
Supporting Member
each to their own. I can assure you I don't play for the $$ and I know folks who do original music only. Kudos to them and you.
Not my thing.. but I've had the pleasure of opening for some well known national and regional acts by playing covers.. So I'm ok with where I'm at.
As for the OP question , it's not dead but it smells funny 
(FZ Quote)
I work full time as technical director/soundman in a very busy 300/600 place venue , I see all type of shows.
Since it's a small venue , we don't have big , well oiled inter/national tours.
Event that come @ my place sometimes may be well known in other regions ,could fill 5000 theater , but not here.
I say that the percentage of event that implies "Real" musician with "real" playing music is now to 60%
The other 40% is Hip-Hop or DJ stuff or singer + tracks.
On that 60% , I'd say that 40% are good performer./musicians
We have a couple of Jazz event from time to time , these shows kinda remind me why I do that job: real good musicianship.
(FZ Quote)
I work full time as technical director/soundman in a very busy 300/600 place venue , I see all type of shows.
Since it's a small venue , we don't have big , well oiled inter/national tours.
Event that come @ my place sometimes may be well known in other regions ,could fill 5000 theater , but not here.
I say that the percentage of event that implies "Real" musician with "real" playing music is now to 60%
The other 40% is Hip-Hop or DJ stuff or singer + tracks.
On that 60% , I'd say that 40% are good performer./musicians
We have a couple of Jazz event from time to time , these shows kinda remind me why I do that job: real good musicianship.
I'm in a cover band and we probably do 20% of gigs in bars. Keeping our toe in the water at a few decent enough local watering holes where they book us 3 or 4 times a year. That dried up immediately. The remainder of our gigs are private party of one type or another. They have dried up in the short term and we've had a couple cancellations due to Covid. But, we are still booking private parties for the late summer/fall so people are thinking about the future. I expect it will continue.
2019 was our best year to date as we really focused on the private party world. Pay was better....way better. It may be that the bar scene will take longer to recover and some venues may go out of business or give up on live music but there are other ways to play and make money. People still want to hear live music.
For those in the originals world, I think it will be more difficult. It has always been a slog for originals bands to find places to play and to make any money at all. That will probably continue. I have that T-shirt too.
2019 was our best year to date as we really focused on the private party world. Pay was better....way better. It may be that the bar scene will take longer to recover and some venues may go out of business or give up on live music but there are other ways to play and make money. People still want to hear live music.
For those in the originals world, I think it will be more difficult. It has always been a slog for originals bands to find places to play and to make any money at all. That will probably continue. I have that T-shirt too.
Most players will perform mainly material that is in demand. Listeners tend to want to hear popular music. So, that’s what tends to go on the playlist. Fortunately, there is sufficient substance on those original recordings, such that a player can get useful experience with due study; and learning how to extend the various styles. Because, after all, one aspect of Pop music is that the players / ensemble are supposed to bring something fresh to each performance while maintaining the familiar. That is an Art all by itself. Yes, if you are standing there just regurgitating the same stuff night after night; well, that both gets tired and fails at the practice of the Art.
Original music can be great. Most of us will play it if that’s what is wanted. I’ve had the good fortune to play in some pretty talented gigs with original content. But, most of those ALSO do covers. This Hatfield and McCoys concept of Originals VS Covers is ridiculous. Working players do both. It isn’t one or the other.
Just for perspective, my High School dances were played by bands like Ted Nugent (The Amboy Dukes at the time), Frijid Pink, Brownsville Station, and a bunch more to be famous or semi famous acts. It was Detroit. Those acts all had “hits.” But, they would also play covers. Because it was a dance. So, this parochial thing just isn’t part of my DNA. And furthermore, isolating musicians in original only environments is not a good way to propagate the form.
I will say that I am glad I never was in position to “make it Big” with an “original” band; because I vastly prefer playing a wide range of material. The concept of playing the same show night after night on a busy tour sounds at least part drudgery to me. But, YMMV.
I believe that when the virus moves on, we will return to our normal social gathering spots. Many clubs will be under new “management;” because those businesses tend to be on the shifty side of grey anyhow. By then, there will be new material the patrons want to hear. And some old, as always. Same story, but different time and place.
Patience; and stay healthy.
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I think this pandemic was effectively the final nail in the coffin for smaller bar scene type live performance as we know it. I think when it does bounce back, Mustang Sally won’t be there for the ride.
Definitely room for both bucephylus, a great deal can be learned from copying Bernard Edwards one minute and Lemmy the next, in fact I challenge some of the "origionals only" bass players in lucky bands that have made it to cut the mustard in a dive bar with a terrible PA and a hostile audience to get the adulation they are used to playing covers and putting their own stamp on it...it is an art in itself. Happy playing everyone their is room for both.
Wishful thinking.
Since you brought up Mustang Sally....
Just thought I would mention a couple of Mustang Sally factoids, IME.
First, Mustang Sally is one of those rare transcendent hits, including “In the Mood” and “Rock Around the Clock,” which will ALWAYS be popular. People, mainly non-musos, at dance related venues / events will forever request and respond to those kinds of tunes. It’s just reality. This virus isn’t going to change that.
Second, it is always striking to me that the vast majority of bands who play the tune clearly have not put the time into studying the original recording. Most of them play it without appropriate feel or understanding. It’s kind of miraculous that audiences still even want to hear it, given the pitiful / pathetic cover jobs that are most often presented.
I don’t personally get too worked up about playing the tune. It’s a solid funky R&B tune that always fills the dance floor. Playing it with an awareness of the original style helps a lot. Sure, it’s disappointing to substitute 2nd and even 3rd renditions for tunes I’d rather exercise; but, we get paid to play for other folks. Yes, musical performance can be a bit transactional. All the more reason to have a solid base in the style so you can continue playing interesting parts which retain the original feel. That’s the beauty of American Popular Music. It’s a language thing.
Wishful thinking.
Since you brought up Mustang Sally....
Just thought I would mention a couple of Mustang Sally factoids, IME.
Second, it is always striking to me that the vast majority of bands who play the tune clearly have not put the time into studying the original recording. Most of them play it without appropriate feel or understanding. It’s kind of miraculous that audiences still even want to hear it, given the pitiful / pathetic cover jobs that are most often presented.
Well, I'm sure a lot of that has to do with how popular "The Commitments" was. Bunch'a white folk pulling off R&B in a movie and yet most of the people who ask for that song don't know who Average White Band is... lol! That movie definitely made that song cool for drunk white people to request. Or at least that's how it seemed when I used to live in the US.
It must be a regional thing. It's rare that it gets requested in my city. If anything, it gets thrown around in some of the older blues pubs because, well, "blues..."
But, whatever. We smile, we play, we get paid. Everyone's happy.
Most of my pre-Committments gigs had it on the playlist; and I can’t say I saw any remarkable change after that movie released. If anything, I wasn’t very impressed by the movie; although it’s a pretty humorous ride. It is always a bit disappointing to me when a band states that their reference recording is from that movie. Kind of like someone preferring wine coolers to a good bourbon.
But, I grew up in Detroit. and, there is def a different culture across the river. Spent a couple of summer sessions in Toronto for hockey school. The main fare on the juke there was Runaway and stuff like that. Not so much Motown / Atlantic / STAX. There certainly are regional variations. But, I believe that’s a cultural thing, not skin pigmentation related.
Things will be rocky for awhile. My guess is that once we've got a vaccine (in year or so), we can move to normal--whatever that means.
But I'd love to see a new normal (much more substantial investment in music/arts/theater--since statistically, we generate 6 bucks for every dollar invested--bigger impact than major league and college sports in the Twin Cities metro) A new public works program would have the most impact, but if the current trend of discourse in the US holds, that will be just a dream.
I feel fortunate that I recently released an album, so I have something tangible to push--but the overwhelming majority of my income is live music (conducting choirs and pit bands, playing/singing gigs). I'm also adding my living room performances to the glut of online content--though hoping that could translate into sales at some point along the way. My church choir gig is also now a virtual service machine.
And for those that were wondering about income from online outlets, here's the lowdown:
How much artists make from their music?
If you buy one digital album copy for 10 bucks, they make about 8 bucks.
If you stream the album on Amazon 542 times, they make around 5 bucks.
If you stream the album on Apple Music 900 times, they make around 5 bucks.
If you stream the album on Spotify 1800 times, they make around 5 bucks.
If you stream the album on YouTube 28,000 times, they make around 5 bucks.
As you can see, the streaming platforms are horribly underpaying. Please bear this in mind when you listen to and support musicians you love. Since there is no touring or merch revenue now, sales are even more crucial.
But I'd love to see a new normal (much more substantial investment in music/arts/theater--since statistically, we generate 6 bucks for every dollar invested--bigger impact than major league and college sports in the Twin Cities metro) A new public works program would have the most impact, but if the current trend of discourse in the US holds, that will be just a dream.
I feel fortunate that I recently released an album, so I have something tangible to push--but the overwhelming majority of my income is live music (conducting choirs and pit bands, playing/singing gigs). I'm also adding my living room performances to the glut of online content--though hoping that could translate into sales at some point along the way. My church choir gig is also now a virtual service machine.
And for those that were wondering about income from online outlets, here's the lowdown:
How much artists make from their music?
If you buy one digital album copy for 10 bucks, they make about 8 bucks.
If you stream the album on Amazon 542 times, they make around 5 bucks.
If you stream the album on Apple Music 900 times, they make around 5 bucks.
If you stream the album on Spotify 1800 times, they make around 5 bucks.
If you stream the album on YouTube 28,000 times, they make around 5 bucks.
As you can see, the streaming platforms are horribly underpaying. Please bear this in mind when you listen to and support musicians you love. Since there is no touring or merch revenue now, sales are even more crucial.
That movie came out in 1991! MS has been a staple of cover band playlists since the 70's. Every honky-tonk band I ever saw played it throughout all of those years, and a couple of decent horn bands where I lived actually did a great job with it back in the day. One of those bands is still out there and probably still playing it, I don't know.
Maybe I missed it, but everyone seems to assume that the venues will still be in business. Until we have herd immunity, I can't see that a business that survives by drawing a tightly packed crowd has a viable business plan.
Sure, there will be new venues to take their place, but I wouldn't count on live music being the draw at all/many of them.
Of course, that's in my corner of the world. YMMV.
Sure, there will be new venues to take their place, but I wouldn't count on live music being the draw at all/many of them.
Of course, that's in my corner of the world. YMMV.
