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is live music dead
- Thread starter Ric5
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- live music
Unless I'm misunderstanding this, your church isn't going to have the band play on Easter...but you said live music in church is every bit as alive as it ever was?
I don't think it's the drunks - I blame lazy musicians. Too lazy to put any real effort into building a show; expecting to just show up and play what they've always played. Too lazy to learn new material, so they end up playing what every band member already knows, which is the same overplayed, rubbed into the dirt 50 times over, CRAP set lists that they've played every weekend for most of their lives.
The future belongs to those who are willing to adapt and improvise. This was true before COVID-19, and the epidemic is just going to accelerate the process. Those who do something new will at least have a chance. Those who "stick with what got us here" are going to be left behind.
This has been happening for some time. Lots of cool collaboration projects online. Lots use Patreon to make their monies.
Nice oxymoron!
personally I prefer it, to a dj! I enjoy live music! but I get it, in the current world situation I will avoid it like a plague!
i'm down with the "glass is half full" crowd. believing in the indomitable human spirit is a 'plus' when you're as old as rocks. 
there's a bunch of folks out there who will be horny for partying...besides ourselves!
be ready: stay safe and healthy!
there's a bunch of folks out there who will be horny for partying...besides ourselves!
be ready: stay safe and healthy!
Kind of a vicious circle on the semi pro pub/bar scene here in UK , venues were dying faster than Covid victims anyway , and venues can only afford to pay peanuts....so you get monkeys playing....then no one turns up because they are not entertained, so the trick is much the same as it`s always been, be really good, play for peanuts, bar fills up ask for more money next time. And forget playing original material unless you are young/sexy and can get on the burgeoning festival circuit otherwise you are wasting your time...Oh but there`s always the wedding scene...what was that about "Sweet Caroline"?
I hung up my guns, so to speak, 10 years ago, and so I, too, am out of the loop.
I live in Nashville, and here we have lots of live venues on Broadway and elsewhere . . . . . . that for right now may as well be boarded up, they're all under a mandatory closure.
Virtually all the pickers are out of work in local venues, the hundreds that go out in road bands for touring artists (from has-beens and used-to-be's to the biggest artists on the charts) are dry-docked for now just like the Prevosts and the 18-wheelers. Same for the touring sound and light companies. I'm assuming as since they're not an 'essential business', Gibson production is stopped, though I don't really know.
It's done tremendous damage to all of that (along with everything else) and it will be sadly interesting to watch how . . . . and when . . . . some sort of normal resumes. My favorite music store, Corner Music, is offering 'cub-side pickup' or free delivery, as you are barred from going inside until at least 24 April, the latest extension of Metro Nashville's 'Stay at Home' orders. Mostly the same for Gruhn's, Carter Vintage, Rumble Seat, and the several Guitar Center locations here as well as the other local stores.
Somehow it seems really weird I could call my friend JD at Corner, buy a Sadowsky (they're one of the few stocking dealers in the country), and pull up to the front door and have it handed to me from someone in a mask and rubber gloves.
I'm trying to wrap my head around this, but I tell ya, so far my head is having a problem being stretched that far.
I live in Nashville, and here we have lots of live venues on Broadway and elsewhere . . . . . . that for right now may as well be boarded up, they're all under a mandatory closure.
Virtually all the pickers are out of work in local venues, the hundreds that go out in road bands for touring artists (from has-beens and used-to-be's to the biggest artists on the charts) are dry-docked for now just like the Prevosts and the 18-wheelers. Same for the touring sound and light companies. I'm assuming as since they're not an 'essential business', Gibson production is stopped, though I don't really know.
It's done tremendous damage to all of that (along with everything else) and it will be sadly interesting to watch how . . . . and when . . . . some sort of normal resumes. My favorite music store, Corner Music, is offering 'cub-side pickup' or free delivery, as you are barred from going inside until at least 24 April, the latest extension of Metro Nashville's 'Stay at Home' orders. Mostly the same for Gruhn's, Carter Vintage, Rumble Seat, and the several Guitar Center locations here as well as the other local stores.
Somehow it seems really weird I could call my friend JD at Corner, buy a Sadowsky (they're one of the few stocking dealers in the country), and pull up to the front door and have it handed to me from someone in a mask and rubber gloves.
I'm trying to wrap my head around this, but I tell ya, so far my head is having a problem being stretched that far.
Live music has been around for, oh, about 40,000 to 50,000 years. It will remain as long as there are people who play instruments or sing.
So, you know, I give it another three or four months.
So, you know, I give it another three or four months.
the fact that the op referenced "making a CD" says a lot 
not dead, far from dead. all live events are put on hold, obviously that's not nothing.
I know dozens of people who make their living performing to live audiences. at the other end of this current situation, there will be more live audiences, no doubt.
not dead, far from dead. all live events are put on hold, obviously that's not nothing.
I know dozens of people who make their living performing to live audiences. at the other end of this current situation, there will be more live audiences, no doubt.
Interesting discussion..
A few days ago I watched a local, all original goth rock band from where I live play a live streaming show on Facebook. There were about 265 people watching when I logged on. Although they are a long standing band with a good reputation I don't think they could draw 265 people to a club on a given night. Granted everyone is stuck inside due to the virus so that certainly added to the numbers but This got me thinking that maybe live streaming or some variation of that might be part of the future of music.
If your in an original band...would you rather play at a club to 30 people or say 150 people from all over the world online from your practice space?
Metallica has been streaming previous recorded live shows on youtube and FB...imagine if someone of their size did a live stream from their rehearsal space...interacting with people in real time, taking requests...maybe to make some money they grab some sponsors and some special offers...the first 150 people to pay $75 get to talk with a memeber of Metallica on facetime after the show for 5 mins...autographed merchandise only available during the stream..etc etc.
The future of music was already changing with streaming and maybe this is the next step. Live shows will always exist but maybe this becomes another option.
A few days ago I watched a local, all original goth rock band from where I live play a live streaming show on Facebook. There were about 265 people watching when I logged on. Although they are a long standing band with a good reputation I don't think they could draw 265 people to a club on a given night. Granted everyone is stuck inside due to the virus so that certainly added to the numbers but This got me thinking that maybe live streaming or some variation of that might be part of the future of music.
If your in an original band...would you rather play at a club to 30 people or say 150 people from all over the world online from your practice space?
Metallica has been streaming previous recorded live shows on youtube and FB...imagine if someone of their size did a live stream from their rehearsal space...interacting with people in real time, taking requests...maybe to make some money they grab some sponsors and some special offers...the first 150 people to pay $75 get to talk with a memeber of Metallica on facetime after the show for 5 mins...autographed merchandise only available during the stream..etc etc.
The future of music was already changing with streaming and maybe this is the next step. Live shows will always exist but maybe this becomes another option.
@Altitude Astute and fairly accurate based on my observations over the past 20 years or so.
With lockdown time on my hands, I'll elaborate a bit on your points:
Indeed, to work the A rooms and nicer public venues in the Denver/Metro area regularly, the standards are high and management/ownership exercise a lot of control and discretion in who makes it on their regular rotation and calendar. The best cover bands rule the best rooms in town. It's kind of a myth that you need to have a big following and bring a bus load of people, because these rooms have such a good reputation for consistently great service and dance party bands, they have built-in crowds. All your cover band needs to do is hold them in the room and bring the same level of entertainment that the other bands on the club's roster bring. And that involves an entertainer's sacrifice and mentality, non-stop dance party standards, lots of energy, a more formal stylish aesthetic, and lighting, among other things. You had also best be prepared to rub elbows with the patrons between sets and make special announcements like shout-outs to staff, birthdays and celebrations, drink and food specials, etc. In other words, win hearts and minds, take up the co-host role for the owner, and help his business succeed. There may be 15-20 such clubs here, but you don't need to get on all their lists. I was doing well for around four years getting repeat bookings at six or so (Baker Streets, Babes, McCarthy's, Hoffbrau, etc.). Each of those public venues book you staggered every 6 weeks; add in your private events, and you're keeping your band pretty busy. But getting that list of nice public rooms to trust you and book you regularly is the key, so your playlist and presentation had better please the client and (most importantly) his guests/patrons. There is plenty of competition, a line of good bands right behind you waiting for their chance, so as little as one bad night could cost your band its regular slot at some clubs.
Yep, plenty of those. But once you get a taste for decent money (A rooms and private events), you don't even want to think about the B rooms anymore. My seven-piece variety band was pulling down $100 per man minimum at public rooms, often more, and I promised I wouldn't even ask them to leave the house for less than $75.00 in even the most desperate of times. These were good musicians providing a vital service to our clients, and they deserved to be compensated accordingly. It was my job to make that happen.
That's the safe formula for this business model and target client, for sure. Some bands hit it "like the record" less than others, but sometimes it's more about song selection. You can't go wrong giving party audiences familiar standards served up in a very faithful and recognizable way. I have seen a couple of bands taking some serious liberties and rather drastic departures from faithful covers, but the successful ones are the exception, not the rule. Most bands don't have the arrangement or musician chops to re-work covers and still connect to the party audience and get/keep them on the dance floor, and most of them do not get repeat bookings in the nicer A rooms. My band used the most-popular hit recording as our foundational arrangement and worked very hard to emulate it. We might do extended mixes with extra solos and such, but the meat of the song was always really close. It worked for us. Keep in mind, when you are in a project like this, you're not doing it to show how clever or creative you are as a musician for the most part. Your individuality and musicianship takes a back seat to giving people what they want. You're in it to be an entertainer, and you get your kicks vicariously through the dance party audience getting their kicks.
This is where the real money is, although it takes a lot of hard work and sacrifice. For a good decade or so I made a full-time living wage (paid a mortgage, took vacations, etc.) as a full-time musician, and my bread and butter (in additon to private music lessons) was my private event DJ business specializing exclusively in upscale black-tie events. To my surprise, I had an understanding for the very particular and detail-oriented (i.e. needy) private event client and party planner and was able to win their trust and sell myself as an entertainer and MC. I brought that success to the live band setting, and it works perfectly for this client (in a nice twist, my band actually started stealing business from DJ's). But beyond chops, once again it's all about the playlist and song selection. Your permanent active variety playlist needs to widen a little more and you need to be willing to learn a special song or two for the client sometimes. The administrative burden is a little bigger (lots of marketing, website, GigMasters type chores), and the day of event can be a little longer, but there is a real satisfaction (IMHO) to slapping a check for $300-$500 into each of your band members' hands for one event. Beyond that, as an entertainer, you once again have a built-in party audience. These guests came in knowing that when the formalities are over, it's party time. The best parties, biggest paydays and tips, were in the private event setting. Indeed, I would prefer to use public venues as paid rehearsals and book as much or more private gigs.
That's pretty much it. I assume Denver is like a lot of large metro areas where original music just doesn't pay. The venues booking originals bands here are merely providing a service for those bands. They keep the lights on with door charges and drink prices, and not much room in the budget to pay the band. There are a few exceptions of local originals bands that bring a decent following to the room (Guild of Ages comes to mind, but even they mix in a bunch of covers), and they can actually set a fee. On the Broadway Strip and a couple of other areas, the venues booking originals acts have a sort of bohemian vibe, and people go to see and be seen as much as for the music. I have played in a couple of non-mainstream bands that played the Broadway Strip and it can be fun, some of these audiences get very pleasant surprises by how good the band is and respond enthusiastically. But I rarely if ever got paid in cash money. And you're right, the originals bands who have gained national or international success have thin ties at best to the Denver area. As soon as they start to get noticed in the industry, they relocate to more serious and vibrant music hubs to get polished up and be around better musicians, producers, managers, distribution labels, etc.
Even judging by how abysmally many local cover bands and musicians conduct business, Denver is very much an amateur-hour music city. You take being a performing musician too seriously here, you're more likely to encounter scorn from your fellow musicians than appreciation and respect. Sorry if that offends, but it is my firm belief based on careful observation and immersing myself in the local scene for 20 years, and visits to places like Nashville.
With lockdown time on my hands, I'll elaborate a bit on your points:
Indeed, to work the A rooms and nicer public venues in the Denver/Metro area regularly, the standards are high and management/ownership exercise a lot of control and discretion in who makes it on their regular rotation and calendar. The best cover bands rule the best rooms in town. It's kind of a myth that you need to have a big following and bring a bus load of people, because these rooms have such a good reputation for consistently great service and dance party bands, they have built-in crowds. All your cover band needs to do is hold them in the room and bring the same level of entertainment that the other bands on the club's roster bring. And that involves an entertainer's sacrifice and mentality, non-stop dance party standards, lots of energy, a more formal stylish aesthetic, and lighting, among other things. You had also best be prepared to rub elbows with the patrons between sets and make special announcements like shout-outs to staff, birthdays and celebrations, drink and food specials, etc. In other words, win hearts and minds, take up the co-host role for the owner, and help his business succeed. There may be 15-20 such clubs here, but you don't need to get on all their lists. I was doing well for around four years getting repeat bookings at six or so (Baker Streets, Babes, McCarthy's, Hoffbrau, etc.). Each of those public venues book you staggered every 6 weeks; add in your private events, and you're keeping your band pretty busy. But getting that list of nice public rooms to trust you and book you regularly is the key, so your playlist and presentation had better please the client and (most importantly) his guests/patrons. There is plenty of competition, a line of good bands right behind you waiting for their chance, so as little as one bad night could cost your band its regular slot at some clubs.
Yep, plenty of those. But once you get a taste for decent money (A rooms and private events), you don't even want to think about the B rooms anymore. My seven-piece variety band was pulling down $100 per man minimum at public rooms, often more, and I promised I wouldn't even ask them to leave the house for less than $75.00 in even the most desperate of times. These were good musicians providing a vital service to our clients, and they deserved to be compensated accordingly. It was my job to make that happen.
That's the safe formula for this business model and target client, for sure. Some bands hit it "like the record" less than others, but sometimes it's more about song selection. You can't go wrong giving party audiences familiar standards served up in a very faithful and recognizable way. I have seen a couple of bands taking some serious liberties and rather drastic departures from faithful covers, but the successful ones are the exception, not the rule. Most bands don't have the arrangement or musician chops to re-work covers and still connect to the party audience and get/keep them on the dance floor, and most of them do not get repeat bookings in the nicer A rooms. My band used the most-popular hit recording as our foundational arrangement and worked very hard to emulate it. We might do extended mixes with extra solos and such, but the meat of the song was always really close. It worked for us. Keep in mind, when you are in a project like this, you're not doing it to show how clever or creative you are as a musician for the most part. Your individuality and musicianship takes a back seat to giving people what they want. You're in it to be an entertainer, and you get your kicks vicariously through the dance party audience getting their kicks.
This is where the real money is, although it takes a lot of hard work and sacrifice. For a good decade or so I made a full-time living wage (paid a mortgage, took vacations, etc.) as a full-time musician, and my bread and butter (in additon to private music lessons) was my private event DJ business specializing exclusively in upscale black-tie events. To my surprise, I had an understanding for the very particular and detail-oriented (i.e. needy) private event client and party planner and was able to win their trust and sell myself as an entertainer and MC. I brought that success to the live band setting, and it works perfectly for this client (in a nice twist, my band actually started stealing business from DJ's). But beyond chops, once again it's all about the playlist and song selection. Your permanent active variety playlist needs to widen a little more and you need to be willing to learn a special song or two for the client sometimes. The administrative burden is a little bigger (lots of marketing, website, GigMasters type chores), and the day of event can be a little longer, but there is a real satisfaction (IMHO) to slapping a check for $300-$500 into each of your band members' hands for one event. Beyond that, as an entertainer, you once again have a built-in party audience. These guests came in knowing that when the formalities are over, it's party time. The best parties, biggest paydays and tips, were in the private event setting. Indeed, I would prefer to use public venues as paid rehearsals and book as much or more private gigs.
That's pretty much it. I assume Denver is like a lot of large metro areas where original music just doesn't pay. The venues booking originals bands here are merely providing a service for those bands. They keep the lights on with door charges and drink prices, and not much room in the budget to pay the band. There are a few exceptions of local originals bands that bring a decent following to the room (Guild of Ages comes to mind, but even they mix in a bunch of covers), and they can actually set a fee. On the Broadway Strip and a couple of other areas, the venues booking originals acts have a sort of bohemian vibe, and people go to see and be seen as much as for the music. I have played in a couple of non-mainstream bands that played the Broadway Strip and it can be fun, some of these audiences get very pleasant surprises by how good the band is and respond enthusiastically. But I rarely if ever got paid in cash money. And you're right, the originals bands who have gained national or international success have thin ties at best to the Denver area. As soon as they start to get noticed in the industry, they relocate to more serious and vibrant music hubs to get polished up and be around better musicians, producers, managers, distribution labels, etc.
Even judging by how abysmally many local cover bands and musicians conduct business, Denver is very much an amateur-hour music city. You take being a performing musician too seriously here, you're more likely to encounter scorn from your fellow musicians than appreciation and respect. Sorry if that offends, but it is my firm belief based on careful observation and immersing myself in the local scene for 20 years, and visits to places like Nashville.
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Live Music: "The reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated"
Dormant for now, but it will come back with a vengeance. That's my opinion.
People are sooooo ready to party at this point. You won't be able to book a hotel room in Vegas or any big entertainment center a month after this ban is lifted.
Dormant for now, but it will come back with a vengeance. That's my opinion.
People are sooooo ready to party at this point. You won't be able to book a hotel room in Vegas or any big entertainment center a month after this ban is lifted.
The local scene gets smaller every year and COVID-19 will make it worse.
The last decent money I made playing gigs was in the mid-late 90's.
Cd's are out, my BL spent $25,000 on a radio quality CD and no money
coming in to help pay it except T-shirts, a few gigs and pennies from Spotify etc...
The last decent money I made playing gigs was in the mid-late 90's.
Cd's are out, my BL spent $25,000 on a radio quality CD and no money
coming in to help pay it except T-shirts, a few gigs and pennies from Spotify etc...
Rock music has slowly been morphing into "tribute" bands for a while now.
People who play in three and four-piece rock bands have been complaining for years about lack of places to play. If you're not in a focused tribute band, it's probably going to be really hard to play.
I suspect when things get back to "something" enough that people are willing to congregate for music, there will be a rush to "managed" tribute acts for about ten years (maybe less,) then things will start to get real quiet for the 4-chords-on-a-6 string crowd. Remember, all those people who grew up on rock and roll are not getting any younger.
People who play in three and four-piece rock bands have been complaining for years about lack of places to play. If you're not in a focused tribute band, it's probably going to be really hard to play.
I suspect when things get back to "something" enough that people are willing to congregate for music, there will be a rush to "managed" tribute acts for about ten years (maybe less,) then things will start to get real quiet for the 4-chords-on-a-6 string crowd. Remember, all those people who grew up on rock and roll are not getting any younger.
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- Jan 29, 2008
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I love playing parties … so much fun … kinda like jamming with an audience
There have been quite a few live streams of local musicians on my Facebook feed. One band actually got together to hold a fundraiser for a local club. It was a really nice gesture, not without some risk because they were all together in one room (properly distanced, of course) but there were two major problems.
The first problem was sound quality. It was just bad. I wanted to be supportive because I love this club and the owner so I went out to my studio where I could listen on big speakers and it still sounded awful. It was apparently streamed using an old camera phone of some sort, but the built in microphone used wasn't really up to the task.
Second was that the band just wasn't all that good. Pitchy vocals all over the place. It was a nice effort and maybe in a busy bar you might get away with that, but with everyone watching intently, it's not a good look. And the stream didn't generate a lot of traffic. I ended up just making a donation and logging off, because it wasn't entertaining in any way.
good info
so now if you want to stream 'decently', you have to invest the sheckles and time in coming up with a recording studio-esque environ (equipment and know-how) for both sound and video transmission.
fark
it's always something
Women (and some men) need to dance.
Men like to watch women (and some men) dancing, but need to pretend they are there for another reason.
Beer needs to be sold.
= Live music.
Men like to watch women (and some men) dancing, but need to pretend they are there for another reason.
Beer needs to be sold.
= Live music.
