I met my wife of 38 years on a break at a gig and I've made my living or part of my living my whole adult life playing mostly in bars. I'm not going to complain about bars. A gig is a gig.
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is live music dead
- Thread starter Ric5
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Good for you. Glad to hear you enjoy the gig.
If you are playing the music that you really enjoy hearing and playing, then that's great.
Where do the rest of the bass players that like music other than the required bar set playing... ??
I know... nowhere. And everyone is just fine and dandy with that setup.
Just like all of the players that inspired me... they played the bars forever because nobody cared about original music... right?
I'm six pages late on this but here goes anyways.
As a profession it's been on a downward trend for a long time. My great grandfather was a bandleader and music teacher his whole life. My grandfather toured and supported a family into the 80s but eventually picked up a trade. My dad went into a trade and drummed in bands for decent pay. I have a tech job and play music for peanuts most of the time.
And if I'm being honest
this is a part of why. People undervalue the arts, and folks like me playing a bunch of tunes at your local dive for a small paycheck that doesn't need to pay my bills helps them do that. It's all gravy for me, I don't need to cover the bills with my gigs. I'm happy if my gigs cover my gear costs over time. I certainly play with folks who do need the gigging income, and I respect the hustle. But we're a long way away from the days where music was a broadly viable profession, bars will gladly pay an okay band cheaper money as long as it keeps the drinks flowing. Or a dj. Or someone's spotify playlist. For some sure it will continue to be viable, but not at the same level it was in my great grandfather's and grandfather's times.
As a profession it's been on a downward trend for a long time. My great grandfather was a bandleader and music teacher his whole life. My grandfather toured and supported a family into the 80s but eventually picked up a trade. My dad went into a trade and drummed in bands for decent pay. I have a tech job and play music for peanuts most of the time.
And if I'm being honest
this is a part of why. People undervalue the arts, and folks like me playing a bunch of tunes at your local dive for a small paycheck that doesn't need to pay my bills helps them do that. It's all gravy for me, I don't need to cover the bills with my gigs. I'm happy if my gigs cover my gear costs over time. I certainly play with folks who do need the gigging income, and I respect the hustle. But we're a long way away from the days where music was a broadly viable profession, bars will gladly pay an okay band cheaper money as long as it keeps the drinks flowing. Or a dj. Or someone's spotify playlist. For some sure it will continue to be viable, but not at the same level it was in my great grandfather's and grandfather's times.
Coffee, that's a cool drug...Unless the world descends into an endless series of pandemics requiring regular isolation like we are seeing today, live music will come back. Will it ever again be a profession that you can raise a family on? Maybe not.
Previous music booms had to do with social trends. The big bands of the 30s and 40s were built on the phenomenon of dance halls. Before that, there was vaudeville and music halls. In the 1960s the British Invasion and rise of the counterculture led to festivals and touring large venues. Hip hop was made possible by inexpensive recording equipment and samplers removing the need for a performer to be competent at playing a musical instrument, just a good ear was required. The EDM scene worldwide was fueled by dance clubs and festivals.
Whoever guesses the next large social trend correctly will make a lot of money. It won't be me, I'm a senior citizen and totally out of the loop of pop culture. I don't even know what the cool drugs are any more
Guess I should clarify, when I say "originals", I mean people with at least some sort of national presence, even if minor. People who have lived on the road playing their original music across the country for many years. I.e., people who are "making it" in the sense that they support themselves financially with their original music. It's not a hobby for them; it's their lively hood. That's far more rewarding to me than bar gigs.
Once places start to open up again...
Band Name "Play-it-Safe"
Tag line: "We're a band that guarantees to not draw large crowds!"
Music will return, History repeats on the good things in life.
Band Name "Play-it-Safe"
Tag line: "We're a band that guarantees to not draw large crowds!"
Music will return, History repeats on the good things in life.
I play in a classic rock cover band, we do gimme 3 steps, play that funky music, old time rock n roll, never been any reason and yeah even sweet Caroline...we play in clubs, drinking clubs like Amvets, Am Legion, moose and another one like it, 4th of July in the park, other community events, occasional weddings and regular bars too...
Its fun and no we are not creating our own music but we are creating fun and dancing and drinking..and that brings me to my point. We make the bars / clubs we play at money $$$ every time, and that is why those places will continue to hire us to play at their place..period. My band is made up of all guys with a lot of experience and it shows and sounds like it. We are always getting told we sound like a cd playing or you guys are the best band in the area etc, blah blah blah...that's because we have been doing this for 30 years..most of us, we prepare the music and everyone has their part down and its rehearsed til it's right..No ********, no half stepping, no good enough for where we play...no we shoot for excellence..also we have the best sound tech in the area and high quality gear..all this is why we get hired and will continue to get gigs..because like I said, in the end it's all about making money for the bar..we do that, and we have no worries...everyone likes money $...
Its fun and no we are not creating our own music but we are creating fun and dancing and drinking..and that brings me to my point. We make the bars / clubs we play at money $$$ every time, and that is why those places will continue to hire us to play at their place..period. My band is made up of all guys with a lot of experience and it shows and sounds like it. We are always getting told we sound like a cd playing or you guys are the best band in the area etc, blah blah blah...that's because we have been doing this for 30 years..most of us, we prepare the music and everyone has their part down and its rehearsed til it's right..No ********, no half stepping, no good enough for where we play...no we shoot for excellence..also we have the best sound tech in the area and high quality gear..all this is why we get hired and will continue to get gigs..because like I said, in the end it's all about making money for the bar..we do that, and we have no worries...everyone likes money $...
In my experience having gigged steadily since the late 1960's, the music business for local live musicians has always been fickle. But the steady decline started when Disco hit in the late 70's and most of the clubs switched to recorded music and put many who were making a respectable living playing music out of work. Then rap came and is still hugely popular, and the stringent DUI laws that have cut into the venues budget, more people staying at home with their big TV's, and in at least the past 10 years now, I am not sure what the top 40 is called, but it is mostly all created by one guy and a computer.
Yes there will always be a sizable contingent that are interested in live bands but the scene and the money made was already a shadow of what it was pre-COVID. So when this blows over I don't expect a miracle resurgence in live music at a local level. Still, you can have fun playing and jamming and if you're an accomplished player and lucky you may find a niche to play out publicly that pays decent. Just prior to the shut down I have been fortunate playing gigs that pay well at the resorts several times a month and am hoping I have a gig to come back too. When disco hit though I decided to get serious about school and got a solid day gig and always looked at music as an advocation. So the take away from this is, unless you have a spouse or S/O to help support you, don't quit your day job.
Yes there will always be a sizable contingent that are interested in live bands but the scene and the money made was already a shadow of what it was pre-COVID. So when this blows over I don't expect a miracle resurgence in live music at a local level. Still, you can have fun playing and jamming and if you're an accomplished player and lucky you may find a niche to play out publicly that pays decent. Just prior to the shut down I have been fortunate playing gigs that pay well at the resorts several times a month and am hoping I have a gig to come back too. When disco hit though I decided to get serious about school and got a solid day gig and always looked at music as an advocation. So the take away from this is, unless you have a spouse or S/O to help support you, don't quit your day job.
Last edited:
- Jan 29, 2008
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
I was booked to play a concert this summer with a blues band … guitar, bass, drums, keyboards, vocals, and horns … that is pretty much not gonna happen … and I wanted to go see Brit Floyd at Red Rocks this summer and that probably won't happen
Seems like a pretty fair summary to me, but I'll add a disclaimer by saying I've been out of the "mainstream" Denver scene for a while. I've been quite happy in my current 14-piece cover band gig, and we play mainly private weddings & corporate events, summer concerts and festivals, etc. So I've been out of the originals scene for a few years.
Up until I got into the previous version of this band (more below), I really struggled with the originals stuff. I'm not sure if it's still the case, but the majority of people I found were just looking to do some heavier sub-genre of metal or punk, which isn't really my thing. Even getting an originals band started was a struggle. On the couple occasions where I could find like-minded individuals and an originals project DID get off the ground, it was really tough to find a gig that wasn't just playing to a bar's few hardcore regular stool-warmers.
Club owners don't want to take the risk of paying a band of unknowns, playing unknown music. The bands that get paid the best around here are the ones that keep the dance floor full, which translates to people staying and drinking. Which (in general) translates to playing songs people recognize. Gaining a fan base and getting gigs as an originals band is incredibly hard because no one knows you and you're not playing popular, well known songs.
I'm very fortunate that we're in that Tier-1 category, but we've also worked hard to get to that point and invested $$$ into the band. Half of us are from a previous version of the band, because that band is (who is still around) was content playing the lower tier clubs and getting maybe $35/person for a late 4-hour gig. Those of us that left did so because we wanted more, and we did exactly what you're talking about to become "Tier 1"... I personally bought lights for the band, we have pro sound for gigs including our own in-ear setup so WE always sound good, connecting with event coordinators, we've invested in stage attire, etc. We also have an "in-house" graphic designer (me!
) and strong marketing, and a ton of talent in the band.We still have a couple regular club gigs, but that's more to give potential clients a place to come see us. Club gigs don't generally pay well, if they even do, especially for a 14-piece.
5sg.
Bravo. Lots of good thoughts here folk. We’re all different. We all have different likes/dislikes, ideas and thoughts.etc Funny how we all believe we’re right though. We all all have different goals in music too.
Back to the OP. Live music is not happening today due to Covid19. Things are gloomy today. The sun will come out again. I hope soon. Rest assured live music will come back! People will still want to get out and have fun. Most folks loose sight of the fact we’re performers. Our job is to make sure people who attend our shows have a good time. If you plan on performing, original/cover, old/new music, etc. you are a musician but mostly a performer. If that’s not true for you, you would be better off not performing live.
Personally, I play pretty good bass but never believed someone was coming out to see me or my band mates as the most amazing musicians. I would rather hear someone say they had a good time at my show anytime over we were great musicians. Good band??? I’ll take that. The most fun bands I’ve been lucky to be part of we’re performance bands. Playing- yes those songs folks know and dance to. Having your sh*& together. Dress nice, minimal dead air between songs with lost of segues, breaking down that wall between the band and the audience, making the audience feel they are part of an event with us. Enthusiasm is infectious!
Back to the OP. Live music is not happening today due to Covid19. Things are gloomy today. The sun will come out again. I hope soon. Rest assured live music will come back! People will still want to get out and have fun. Most folks loose sight of the fact we’re performers. Our job is to make sure people who attend our shows have a good time. If you plan on performing, original/cover, old/new music, etc. you are a musician but mostly a performer. If that’s not true for you, you would be better off not performing live.
Personally, I play pretty good bass but never believed someone was coming out to see me or my band mates as the most amazing musicians. I would rather hear someone say they had a good time at my show anytime over we were great musicians. Good band??? I’ll take that. The most fun bands I’ve been lucky to be part of we’re performance bands. Playing- yes those songs folks know and dance to. Having your sh*& together. Dress nice, minimal dead air between songs with lost of segues, breaking down that wall between the band and the audience, making the audience feel they are part of an event with us. Enthusiasm is infectious!
Lots of churches, including mine, are doing services via social media and YouTube. The preacher and the band are the only ones in the building. We have to keep it 10 people or less here in NC. But the band does play live.
I was thinking about how I posted about being happy playing in bars doing those same ol songs, and this came to me..When I was younger like 20s and 30s, you have a different mindset musically. You wanna do original music and try to "make it" in the music industry, however when you become my age 55, that changes because reality sets in and the reality is; nobody is buying fresh new original music from guys my age not rock n roll anyway. The peek of writing good rock n roll songs comes when you are young and you write words that young people can identify with and the music changes too.
Young people drive the music industry, you gotta admit that bands that are making hit songs and filling arena's and sheds are mostly younger bands..Yeah there are the nostalgia acts like Fleetwood mac, Rolling Stones, Dead n company, etc etc etc that can fill sheds and arena but most of those bands aren't original members either and they are certainly not in their prime..
I guess that what I'm trying to say is that at my age, I have given up the idea of "making it" and have learned to be comfortable just playing music and being able to make people forget about this wretched world for 2-4 hours on a weekend night..Is what I'm doing that much different than what Stevie Nicks is doing?? Yes, the money and the crowd size, that's it however and that also comes with having to be away from home for weeks at a time, going from some hotel to arena, soundcheck, hotel or radio station to do promos, then eat go back to arena, play a show, then back to a hotel and then you sit there in that room, thinking crap I gotta get on a bus in the morning and ride for 5-6 hours and repeat this again..every day..Its tiring, its not like Creem magazine makes it out to be like such a glamorous lifestyle, limos, girls, parties and all that, after a while I can imagine that to me, it would get old quick...Stevie is playing 20-30 year old songs every night just like me and hopefully making those same people forget this crazy world for just a few hours just like me..
I understand the hand wringing over the fact that it seems like the original scene is gone and yeah maybe it is a LOT smaller...but, write the best songs, play them well with your band and if they are that great, the limo's will come.. We all have different perspectives on what we are trying accomplish with music...and they all are valid
Young people drive the music industry, you gotta admit that bands that are making hit songs and filling arena's and sheds are mostly younger bands..Yeah there are the nostalgia acts like Fleetwood mac, Rolling Stones, Dead n company, etc etc etc that can fill sheds and arena but most of those bands aren't original members either and they are certainly not in their prime..
I guess that what I'm trying to say is that at my age, I have given up the idea of "making it" and have learned to be comfortable just playing music and being able to make people forget about this wretched world for 2-4 hours on a weekend night..Is what I'm doing that much different than what Stevie Nicks is doing?? Yes, the money and the crowd size, that's it however and that also comes with having to be away from home for weeks at a time, going from some hotel to arena, soundcheck, hotel or radio station to do promos, then eat go back to arena, play a show, then back to a hotel and then you sit there in that room, thinking crap I gotta get on a bus in the morning and ride for 5-6 hours and repeat this again..every day..Its tiring, its not like Creem magazine makes it out to be like such a glamorous lifestyle, limos, girls, parties and all that, after a while I can imagine that to me, it would get old quick...Stevie is playing 20-30 year old songs every night just like me and hopefully making those same people forget this crazy world for just a few hours just like me..
I understand the hand wringing over the fact that it seems like the original scene is gone and yeah maybe it is a LOT smaller...but, write the best songs, play them well with your band and if they are that great, the limo's will come.. We all have different perspectives on what we are trying accomplish with music...and they all are valid
Something I haven't seen anybody mention yet is, what if the live music scene doesn't bounce back? What if people get even more accustomed to staying in than they already were? I think there's a very real possibility that a significant number of people will continue to not go out, for whatever reason (new habits, fear, etc.), even after the "all clear" has sounded. Sure, many will no doubt burst out & celebrate at least briefly once the gates are opened, but many others may choose to stay put. There's already been a long-term decline, with many of us lamenting the state of live music since long before the current crisis, & COVID-19 may very well accelerate it.
s0c9
Supporting Member
^^^ THIS ^^^ in a nutshell.
I DID the original music (rock) thing for a while as a young 'un! We went nowhere fast but were still able to play 5 days a week back then. Back then I played guitar but we never had a hit song, or any hits.. period!
Over the years I've learnt to be happy with bar/club gigs (still playing "A" venues) and opening for regional + national acts now and again. The pay covers gas, food and gear (when you play 80+ weekend warrior gigs a year)!
No illusions on fame/fortune, etc. I play because I LOVE playing. One still needs to be in a good band because at the "A" level there's 15 bands lining up behind to take your slot! Yes, we play a few originals, but....
I have zero desire to play in an all-originals band, slog thru the aforementioned 4-person crowd, deal with pay-to-play and constantly be on the road. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt collection.
I'll leave that all to the young folks who still have the desire to pursue fame and fortune!
YMMV
It will look different for a while, and even when things settle down I'm sure some people will rethink some things--but live is often the best way to enjoy music--which is part of my issue with hologram performances.
It was hurting before though, and this may not kill it, but will at the least cause it to adapt in some form.
It was hurting before though, and this may not kill it, but will at the least cause it to adapt in some form.
