Is Markbass really all that??

[SJan3]

An amplifier is a piece of electronics. If it is made to the same design and specification, using the same components, it is going
to sound the same no matter where it is made.
This is of course different to, for example, a guitar when variability of natural materials and attention to detail in hand finishing
will make a difference. The latter could, just, possibly apply to a speaker cabinet but not an amplifier.

I think we're really referring to quality of construction. Agree that an amp will sound the same if identical components are used regardless of place of assembly.

 

[penllyn]

I would tend to agree as long as you add in using the same (or better) manufacturing processes (including cleanliness, working environment, employee qualifications and experience, attention to detail, etc.), parts screening, component/sub-assembly/final assemebly burn-in, test and QA/process control, and appropriate preservation, packaging and packing to enure safe delivery from the new location. However, even then there are no guarantees.

As I understand the evolution and IMO, GK's experiment in moving some prodcution to China a number of years back is a great case study regarding intangibles unexpectedly impacting quality specifically in bass amplification product manufacturing. I genuinely believe GK tried to ensure everything in the plant they controlled in China mirrored their US facility - I can't imagine Bob Gallien letting any detail fall simply to chance.

Given that they eventually brought manufacturing/assembly back to the US (presumably not because it was cheaper to build in California than China), I assume they found intangibles in manufacturing (e.g. process control) were impacting production quality. To be clear, this is only my opinion and it relates solely to the potential to inadvertently create unexpected problems when moving even mature manufacturing as an intact process to a different location - and IME this observation is country/geographic location agnostic.

IME quality and concomitantly the cost of poor quality are sometimes affected as signifiacntly by things we can't/don't directly measure or quantify as they are by specs and standards. And yes, Dr. Deming used to tell us at times like this that everything that matters can be measured in some way...the trick is that you have to first identify and understand "everything that matters", which is not always so obvious when things are going just fine!

 

[Al Kraft]

I use a Little Mark 250 Blackline that my wife bought for me last year and love it, works great for me.

View attachment 3331411

A good friend and fellow musician sets up that same Blackline head and a 115 cab (not sure on the brand) for me when we go to play at his functions. I think it sounds great. While Markbass is not the brand I have chosen to own, I wouldn't be upset or insulted if someone gave me one. I have always thought that Markbass heads are solid performers with well-chosen EQ points and innovative filters (VLE and VPF) for tone shaping. I tend to like Mesa GK and Aguilar voicing better, but that's personal taste...or lack thereof depending on your point of view.

 

[penllyn]

I agree with everything you say.
I suppose I simplified my post to avoid having to type too much (really poor typing on my part !)
When I mentioned specification I had things like process control, cleanliness, quality control etc. in mind.
To reach the same specification I presupposed that soldering etc. would be of the same quality.
What I was trying to say was for a piece of electronic equipment built using the same components, to the same design and to the same specification (this includes all the parameters which you mentioned) it can't possibly be any different.
Production of complex electronics can be achieved in China, reference e.g. Apple, Lenovo, Huawei and probably many others.

 

[penllyn]

I would tend to agree as long as you add in using the same (or better) manufacturing processes (including cleanliness, working environment, employee qualifications and experience, attention to detail, etc.), parts screening, component/sub-assembly/final assemebly burn-in, test and QA/process control, and appropriate preservation, packaging and packing to enure safe delivery from the new location. However, even then there are no guarantees.

As I understand the evolution and IMO, GK's experiment in moving some prodcution to China a number of years back is a great case study regarding intangibles unexpectedly impacting quality specifically in bass amplification product manufacturing. I genuinely believe GK tried to ensure everything in the plant they controlled in China mirrored their US facility - I can't imagine Bob Gallien letting any detail fall simply to chance.

Given that they eventually brought manufacturing/assembly back to the US (presumably not because it was cheaper to build in California than China), I assume they found intangibles in manufacturing (e.g. process control) were impacting production quality. To be clear, this is only my opinion and it relates solely to the potential to inadvertently create unexpected problems when moving even mature manufacturing as an intact process to a different location - and IME this observation is country/geographic location agnostic.

IME quality and concomitantly the cost of poor quality are sometimes affected as signifiacntly by things we can't/don't directly measure or quantify as they are by specs and standards. And yes, Dr. Deming used to tell us at times like this that everything that matters can be measured in some way...the trick is that you have to first identify and understand "everything that matters", which is not always so obvious when things are going just fine!

 

[penllyn]

I agree with everything you say.
I suppose I simplified my post to avoid having to type too much (really poor typing on my part !)
When I mentioned specification I had things like process control, cleanliness, quality control etc. in mind.
To reach the same specification I presupposed that soldering etc. would be of the same quality.
What I was trying to say was for a piece of electronic equipment built using the same components, to the same design and to the same specification (this includes all the parameters which you mentioned) it can't possibly be any different.
Production of complex electronics can be achieved in China, reference e.g. Apple, Lenovo, Huawei and probably many others.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

It’s great stuff. I like it a lot actually....

With the exception of two major things:

1) They discontinue and introduce more models faster than any company I’ve ever seen. It’s like there’s an amp around for a year, then it gets ditched and replaced by something else in almost an instant. They make good stuff then *poof*- it’s gone from the lineup.

2) They moved all their production to Asia supposedly to keep costs down, then they turn around and charge an arm and a leg for their stuff.

Yet their Little Mark III has been in continuous production for years now as have their line of combos that feature it. I bought my Berlin Combo and NY151 in 2008 and I think it’s still available.

 

[Al Kraft]

I agree with everything you say.
I suppose I simplified my post to avoid having to type too much (really poor typing on my part !)
When I mentioned specification I had things like process control, cleanliness, quality control etc. in mind.
To reach the same specification I presupposed that soldering etc. would be of the same quality.
What I was trying to say was for a piece of electronic equipment built using the same components, to the same design and to the same specification (this includes all the parameters which you mentioned) it can't possibly be any different.
Production of complex electronics can be achieved in China, reference e.g. Apple, Lenovo, Huawei and probably many others.

We're on the same page for sure! It's unfortunate that so many people often take these kind of discussions to be related to bashing a specific country, and clearly there is no evidence to support sweeping claims IME. However, there are often common business models that simply seek lowest manufacturing cost which have ended up being in geographic areas/countries where source components are readily accessible and labor is cheap...I submit that companies focussed only on these lowest-cost/highest-profit business models would likely still produce crap no matter where on earth they ended up finding the lowest possible labor/manufacturing/assembly costs.

 

[penllyn]

Couldn't agree more.

 

[penllyn]

Poor quality control/stupidity on my part.
I've just realised that I have to quote a posting for it to appear in my reply, doh.
I'll get the hang of it eventually!.

 

[SJan3]

Yet their Little Mark III has been in continuous production for years now as have their line of combos that feature it. I bought my Berlin Combo and NY151 in 2008 and I think it’s still available.

Yes, my LittleMark lll was manufactured in 2009. Other models like the LM800, tube variants of LittleMark, Big Bang etc have endured for years as have their combos. I view it as evolution that they terminate certain models and design new configurations. Of course, $$$ numbers are a key consideration.
I doubt they would squash an amp or cab that was a money maker.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

Not that I have tried all their stuff but I think Markbass heads sound pretty good but not so with their combo amps.

That’s funny. All their original combo amps utilized the Little Mark amp. Arguably their least criticized and most popular, most praised amp they've ever sold.

 

[SJan3]

I'd like to see Markbass incorporate the Nano head with a 1x10" cabinet for a nifty combo.
Add to that a 1x10" extension cabinet and I'd be all in for that mini setup.

 

[Al Kraft]

Didn't they used to have some competent sounding albeit pricey gear like a 4x8 cab and some super light, compact combos that would be perfect for folks using public transportation to get to gigs in places like NY City? I mean a pit orchestra or jazz/coffee house gig where you could get a little PA support would have been an excellent match for rigs like that IMO.

My tiny coffee house rig is an Eden EX110 and GK MB200 or 500. Based on what I've heard tone-wise out of that Blackline 250 I get to play on occasionally I would assume a small Markbass combo would sound easily as good as my tiny rig.

 

[Doner Designs]

I have tried a lot of different gear and still like the MarkBass 112 combo and 112 extension stack that I bought almost 10 years ago. It was my first high quality amp and it is still hard to beat the power to weight ratio. Even without the extension cab the 112 goes a long way on its own especially with FOH support. Hard to beat that in a package the size of a basketball.

MarkBass was one of the pioneers of lightweight gear. Now there are many others so it doesn't stand out as much. They also moved production out of Italy and some say the quality isn't what it was. Mine was made in Italy and has the Class AB power section vs the new ones done offshore with Class D. I have not compared the new to the old. I think the OP mentioned Epifani which I think of as being more boutique vs MarkBass I think of as being high quality non-boutique. My two cents.

As far as I know the founder is still actively involved so I'd be surprised if he lets the quality suffer much for long since his name is on it. Maybe there were bumps in the road when they first offshored but I'd be surprised if that has persisted if it even existed to begin with.

 

[Element Zero]

Hilarious that OP hasn’t logged in in over a year.

 

[SJan3]

Didn't they used to have some competent sounding albeit pricey gear like a 4x8 cab and some super light, compact combos that would be perfect for folks using public transportation to get to gigs in places like NY City? I mean a pit orchestra or jazz/coffee house gig where you could get a little PA support would have been an excellent match for rigs like that IMO.

My tiny coffee house rig is an Eden EX110 and GK MB200 or 500. Based on what I've heard tone-wise out of that Blackline 250 I get to play on occasionally I would assume a small Markbass combo would sound easily as good as my tiny rig.

They have a 1x8" combo and 2x8". Just introduced a 1x10" combo but doesn't have the horsepower of your GK.
The Nano and 1x10" would be a bit more potent than the MB200

 

[Doner Designs]

I might add that Markbass makes one of the very finest compressors that you can buy in a pedal form.

 

[KJMO]

And:
Markbass CMD Jeff Berlin Players School « Bass Amp

I would trust that if it was the actual markbass site, but on a store website, not necessarily. All kinds of inaccurate info on sites where they sell stuff. I agree it doesn't really matter though. I think China can manufacture just about anything you ask for, quality wise.

 

[SJan3]

I would trust that if it was the actual markbass site, but on a store website, not necessarily. All kinds of inaccurate info on sites where they sell stuff. I agree it doesn't really matter though. I think China can manufacture just about anything you ask for, quality wise.

I agree. I've not yet seen anything from Markbass other than the above photo^^^
Granted, it's possible that they moved the Blackline to China in latter years. All other Markbass products are clearly labeled "made in Indonesia".