Is music theory important?

[HolmeBass]

To me, theory isn't what music is about. Music is about playing something that sounds good (to me atleast) and feeling a connection to your instrument or words beyond logic or reason.
What do you think?

The above quoted is absolutely correct. That said, I 1000% agree with everyone saying that learning theory is worth it. Keeping it in the proper perspective can help keep you from suffering analysis paralysis, so staying on the "if it sounds good it is good" course is the right course.

But aren't you ever curious as to why certain note or chord combinations evoke certain feelings? How some cool rhythmic mix-ups work, especially dropped beats, or bars with only two beats in them? Sometimes it's just interesting to learn a song or riff and say, "it doesn't seem to fit with any theory I've learned, but it works nonetheless, must be some sort of an exception." Like a blues or rock tune that's a I-IV-V but all of the chords are 7 chords, or a pop song where the II chord is major instead of minor? But then you don't know what I am talking about, do you?

I would bet that there are people on this board with more advanced knowledge of theory who could even explain why the examples of "exceptions" I posted above work in the songs they work in. Not knowing doesn't keep me from playing them, and it is interesting to me to find new things to ponder and eventually learn, connecting my playing to the theory. Then it's more portable and translatable for me in the future.

That's the thing, theory isn't even really a set of rules, it's just a framework to try and understand and communicate about music in a way that isn't just visceral or entirely ostensible. I don't think learning it will hurt your playing, or even take up more time than knowing some will save in the long run. Plus it's just interesting, at least to me.

 

[Sumaru]

The above quoted is absolutely correct. That said, I 1000% agree with everyone saying that learning theory is worth it. Keeping it in the proper perspective can help keep you from suffering analysis paralysis, so staying on the "if it sounds good it is good" course is the right course.

But aren't you ever curious as to why certain note or chord combinations evoke certain feelings? How some cool rhythmic mix-ups work, especially dropped beats, or bars with only two beats in them? Sometimes it's just interesting to learn a song or riff and say, "it doesn't seem to fit with any theory I've learned, but it works nonetheless, must be some sort of an exception." Like a blues or rock tune that's a I-IV-V but all of the chords are 7 chords, or a pop song where the II chord is major instead of minor? But then you don't know what I am talking about, do you?

I would bet that there are people on this board with more advanced knowledge of theory who could even explain why the examples of "exceptions" I posted above work in the songs they work in. Not knowing doesn't keep me from playing them, and it is interesting to me to find new things to ponder and eventually learn, connecting my playing to the theory. Then it's more portable and translatable for me in the future.

That's the thing, theory isn't even really a set of rules, it's just a framework to try and understand and communicate about music in a way that isn't just visceral or entirely ostensible. I don't think learning it will hurt your playing, or even take up more time than knowing some will save in the long run. Plus it's just interesting, at least to me.

This has to be the best post to this entire thread. The "analysis paralysis" euphemism is SPOT ON-you CAN get caught up in that! It's easy to see music theory as hard, fast rules..and that viewpoint will REALLY trip you up when you come across a situation where the rules are broken, but your ear says "hell yes!".. THE most important point to take away from this discussion is that yes, you SHOULD learn music theory, but you should NOT be ruled by it. Rules are guidelines in music, and chaos can be beautiful!

 

[Major Softie]

This has to be the best post to this entire thread. The "analysis paralysis" euphemism is SPOT ON-you CAN get caught up in that! It's easy to see music theory as hard, fast rules..and that viewpoint will REALLY trip you up when you come across a situation where the rules are broken, but your ear says "hell yes!".. THE most important point to take away from this discussion is that yes, you SHOULD learn music theory, but you should NOT be ruled by it. Rules are guidelines in music, and chaos can be beautiful!

Theory isn't rules, it's understanding what's happening.

Who wants to know less about what they are doing and what they are interested in? Who thinks they would be more artistic and creative if only they were less educated? Anyone who thinks that knowledge gets in the way of creativity is fooling themselves - usually to excuse their own ignorance. Educated artists who are poor artists are not poor artists because they are educated, but despite it. They would not be better if they were more ignorant, they'd be even worse.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

This has to be the best post to this entire thread. The "analysis paralysis" euphemism is SPOT ON-you CAN get caught up in that! It's easy to see music theory as hard, fast rules..and that viewpoint will REALLY trip you up when you come across a situation where the rules are broken, but your ear says "hell yes!".. THE most important point to take away from this discussion is that yes, you SHOULD learn music theory, but you should NOT be ruled by it. Rules are guidelines in music, and chaos can be beautiful!

Nowaday we can't break any "rules" in music. Everything has an explaination, keep digging in music theory and you'll find it. it isn't like in 1500 when you couldn't use a triton because of the devil or that you couldn't make 2 of the 4 voices go the same direction and on top of that they are a fifth appart ...

Now, everything is fair and everything has an explaination. Why does it sound good to your ear may only be because of your taste in music. I like to hear diminish, tritone, augmented and a 2 interval as a chord. I'm used to it, I find it fascinating to you it may sound awful etc. Music theory won't explain why you like it but it will explain why does it work.

 

[ProgRocker]

This has to be the best post to this entire thread. The "analysis paralysis" euphemism is SPOT ON-you CAN get caught up in that! It's easy to see music theory as hard, fast rules..and that viewpoint will REALLY trip you up when you come across a situation where the rules are broken, but your ear says "hell yes!".. THE most important point to take away from this discussion is that yes, you SHOULD learn music theory, but you should NOT be ruled by it. Rules are guidelines in music, and chaos can be beautiful!

Your ears could be saying "hell yes" to something that's wrong if you don't know what you're hearing.

 

[Groovy_Gravy]

What makes you think they have to mutually exclusive? Only people who have had no theory training say that.

Obviously there are people who know no music theory and they manage to be good players, but they are few and far between, and they had to work a lot harder at learning music and how it works. The vast majority of people who don't learn music theory end up not being able to make sense out of music beyond a handful of chords and a riff or two, and they stick their instrument under the bed until their future spouse makes them sell it.

ding ding ding!! we have a winner!!

seriously man i thought the same when i started music 10 years ago...how quickly i realized i was WRONG. theory is important

 

[lfmn16]

Theory isn't rules, it's understanding what's happening.

Who wants to know less about what they are doing and what they are interested in? Who thinks they would be more artistic and creative if only they were less educated? Anyone who thinks that knowledge gets in the way of creativity is fooling themselves - usually to excuse their own ignorance. Educated artists who are poor artists are not poor artists because they are educated, but despite it. They would not be better if they were more ignorant, they'd be even worse.

This is what people who think theory gets in the way of creativity don't understand. Theory tells you what you did, not what you have to do. It tells you that you do one thing if you want to play traditional jazz, but another thing if you want to play traditional country.

 

[Major Softie]

This is what people who think theory gets in the way of creativity don't understand. Theory tells you what you did, not what you have to do. It tells you that you do one thing if you want to play traditional jazz, but another thing if you want to play traditional country.

And gives you a vocabulary to also communicate in words what you otherwise could only communicate musically.

 

[JimmyM]

This has to be the best post to this entire thread. The "analysis paralysis" euphemism is SPOT ON-you CAN get caught up in that! It's easy to see music theory as hard, fast rules..

Only for those who can't ever think outside of the box. If someone sees theory as "hard and fast rules," that's on them. It's certainly not what it's intended for.

 

[Mrzonehead]

Do you want to be literate or illiterate?!? It's really that simple...you can go through life and probably be ok and not know how to read, or you can open up a huge world of amazing (sometimes lame) ideas for you to soak up and utilize in your own vocabulary. It really only helps one grow.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

There is more to music theory than knowing the root of a chord name and where they are on the bass ( which is more about knowledge of the instrument ).

^ This is an oversimplification of theory and it's application in my opinion. Being able to find "C" on a fretboard doesn't mean the person has any understanding beyond "The guitarist said it's in C minor, so there must be a C in it."

I'm afraid there's just a bit more to it than that.

Where is Fergie Fulton when I really need him?


============================================
What is music theory?

"Music theory is the study of how music works. It examines the language and notation of music. It seeks to find patterns and structures in composers' techniques across or within genres, styles, or historical periods. In a grand sense, music theory distills and analyzes the fundamental parameters or elements of music—rhythm, harmony (harmonic function), melody, structure, form, texture, etc."

"Music is the art of sound and as such possesses the same properties as sound.
In musical terms these are pitch, duration, and loudness.
Pitch is our perception of the relative highness or lowness of a sound.
Duration is the relative length of a sound.
Loudness is the relative strength of a sound.
All of these properties have a common dimension: time. Thus music is characterized as
a temporal art."

"Understanding music theory means knowing the language of music. The main thing to know about music theory is that it is simply a way to explain the music we hear. Music had existed for thousands of years before theory came along to explain what people were trying to accomplish innately by pounding on their drums. Don’t ever think that you can’t be a good musician just because you’ve never taken a theory class.

In fact, if you are a good musician, you already know a lot of theory. You just may not know the words or scientific formulas for what you’re doing.


"The fundamental components of sound and music are pitch, duration, and loudness.
Another important quality of sound and music is timbre, or tone quality.
The earliest symbols were used for the notation of pitch. The notation of durations is
newer.
Notations of loudness and tone color are the most recent additions to our system."
2. The Notation of Pitch
Early notated European music was at first associated with (Latin) words, therefore the
symbols for the pitches (notes) were placed on the page along with the text to be sung. The
order of the symbols from left to right, as in the language, indicated the order in which the
sounds were to be produced. The positioning of the notes up or down on the page indicated
the highness or lowness of the sound to be sung.

"The Pitches
Western music uses the first seven letters of the alphabet to name the different pitches. In
our system A is lower than B and B is lower than C, and so on.
1 That all of our music can
be represented by using only seven letter names is due to the historical evolution of our
Western notation system and the nature of the human ear."
=========================================
Now, the guitar player says, "Cm7".
Does he mean the pitch?

 

[JimmyM]

In fact, if you are a good musician, you already know a lot of theory. You just may not know the words or scientific formulas for what you’re doing.

And you're just guessing at it, so you could also be wrong, plus you're not learning the vast amount of info available to you that is way beyond what you've figured out by yourself.

 

[ProgRocker]

Where is Fergie Fulton when I really need him?


============================================
What is music theory?

"Music theory is the study of how music works. It examines the language and notation of music. It seeks to find patterns and structures in composers' techniques across or within genres, styles, or historical periods. In a grand sense, music theory distills and analyzes the fundamental parameters or elements of music—rhythm, harmony (harmonic function), melody, structure, form, texture, etc."

"Music is the art of sound and as such possesses the same properties as sound.
In musical terms these are pitch, duration, and loudness.
Pitch is our perception of the relative highness or lowness of a sound.
Duration is the relative length of a sound.
Loudness is the relative strength of a sound.
All of these properties have a common dimension: time. Thus music is characterized as
a temporal art."

"Understanding music theory means knowing the language of music. The main thing to know about music theory is that it is simply a way to explain the music we hear. Music had existed for thousands of years before theory came along to explain what people were trying to accomplish innately by pounding on their drums. Don’t ever think that you can’t be a good musician just because you’ve never taken a theory class.

In fact, if you are a good musician, you already know a lot of theory. You just may not know the words or scientific formulas for what you’re doing.


"The fundamental components of sound and music are pitch, duration, and loudness.
Another important quality of sound and music is timbre, or tone quality.
The earliest symbols were used for the notation of pitch. The notation of durations is
newer.
Notations of loudness and tone color are the most recent additions to our system."

=========================================
Now, the guitar player says, "Cm7".
Does he mean a pitch?

Meanwhile, back in the 21st Century......

[This invalid link has been removed]

Fact is, Music Theory exists, and it's the language of modern music. What cave men were doing is irrelevant to what modern musicians are doing today. No one is saying anyone "MUST" learn it, only how learning even a little of it makes your musical life easier.

Do you deny that? All music notes, chords, etc. have a pitch. So, do you tune with an oscilloscope? You could. But, why would you? Identifying pitches by their letter name is much easier than tuning by pitch or "cycles per second".

"A" (concert pitch) for instance is 440 cycles per second. That is it's scientific "pitch". You refer to "newer" additions to written music as though they've happened with the last 40 years. That's not even close.

Here, have a look:
http://method-behind-the-music.com/history/history

There are many other sources. By "most recent" are you referring to the Renaissance period? Hardly "recent" history in any sense of the word. When discussing "Western Music", Theory is the thread that ties it all together. People can choose to be willfully ignorant, and many do. This is evident in music as well as the spoken word.

As many twenty-somethings are learning, text-speak, chat-speak and other "slang" don't pass for adult conversation in the real world. The same can be said for music.

Writing in large font and all caps only detracts from your argument, it does nothing to strengthen it. Just thought you should know. Cm7 is a "pitch", but it is also a chord. Unless you're prepared to start calling out frequencies in cycles per second, I suggest you stick to the established system that we've all been using for the last couple of centuries now.

 

[Mike Sorr]

Jaco Pastorius used to recommend that bass musicians learn the whole song. Learn not only the bass line, but learn to play the vocal line, horns, keyboards and guitar as much as can be applied. He felt that this would make you much more well rounded and help students make sense of some of the theory they were hopefully learning. If you are resisting learning ANY theory, then your mind is made up and that's that. There are plenty of "self taught" punk and metal bass players that have made nice livings for themselves and some are actually big influences on legions of players. But you know that expression about "knowing just enough to be dangerous"? I would advise you to learn at least enough theory to be dangerous, and then learn a little more. You'll thank yourself.

Musicianship is a craft, like carpentry for example. Not everyone who works with wood is a craftsman or even wants to be one, and there are some pretty talented guys who build stuff in their basements on the weekends.

 

[ProgRocker]

And you're just guessing at it, so you could also be wrong, plus you're not learning the vast amount of info available to you that is way beyond what you've figured out by yourself.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/SIZE][/U][/B]

+1

 

[Whousedtoplay]

And you're just guessing at it, so you could also be wrong, plus you're not learning the vast amount of info available to you that is way beyond what you've figured out by yourself.

JimmyM,

All my life I've tried to learn as much as possible, and always recommended it to everybody.
All my postings here are about learning.

Let's stay focused.

My response was not about stopping anybody from learning music theory.
My message was/is that every musician uses music theory while playing, even if she/he does not know about it.
They just have different levels of music theory knowledge.

 

[pan1k]

Knowing music theory took me from being a bass player, and turned me into a bassist.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Meanwhile, back in the 21st Century......
Writing in large font and all caps only detracts from your argument, it does nothing to strengthen it.
Unless you're prepared to start calling out frequencies in cycles per second, I suggest you stick to the established system that we've all been using for the last couple of centuries now.

I'm sorry for the large size font. I won't use it ever again.

I really forgot that Cm7 is a chord.


Anyway, to all participants of this and other forums:

Learn as much music theory as you can.

 

[Nephilymbass]

Maybe. For me it has been helpful but for a lot of people I think it holds them back. When it comes to writing stuff I really try to forget theory and just jam. IMO if your thinking to much when your writing the music won't be sincere. For example a guitar solo that just sounds like scales instead of music. I'd rather my guitar player play a solo more like the one from smells like teen spirit than running a bunch if scales.

 

[skwee]

As some people have stated: yes, you can be a musician and not consciously know theory--however, it can only help you to know what all those patterns are called and why they work. Being able to understand those patterns helps you to learn and create music much more quickly, and takes the guesswork out of music making.