Double Bass Is the bass "frapping"?

[MichelD]

My Cajun band made a rough and dirty recording a couple of weeks ago with a little four channel board. There are two fiddles, a lap steel, accordion, rhythm guitar, washboard/triangle and me.

We put a mic on the singer/steel player one over the fiddles and one in the middle. Using my Underwood pickup on the upright we plugged that into the board

Anyway, on this song, the bandleader (whom you my have read other posts about this week) said the recording is unusable as a demo to put out on the band's FB page because the bass is "frapping " whatever that means. Overloading at input? Me the bassist playing too hard again?

We intend to do a better recording with lots of mics and a 16-channel board in 10 days, but I am curious to get a feeling of what you might think of the overall sound and the bass. Thanks.

 

[cheapbasslovin]

Does the Underwood have a preamp designed for the piezo? Piezos have pretty specific needs, so the preamp on the board may have been a mismatch, causing the input to clip or the pickup to clip. If you have and used an acoustic preamp, then I have no good answers.

That said, I guess I don't know what's required of a demo that this is 'useless.' Obviously, when you can record it better then do it, but this isn't awful, IMO, and it wouldn't be impossible to mix the bass low enough that it's not distracting.

 

[MichelD]

Does the Underwood have a preamp designed for the piezo? Piezos have pretty specific needs, so the preamp on the board may have been a mismatch, causing the input to clip or the pickup to clip. If you have and used an acoustic preamp, then I have no good answers.

That said, I guess I don't know what's required of a demo that this is 'useless.' Obviously, when you can record it better then do it, but this isn't awful, IMO, and it wouldn't be impossible to mix the bass low enough that it's not distracting.

It ws a kind of quick and dirty recording we did at rehearsal with the accordion players little mixer and laptop. He used Pro Logic I think. I have a Fishman preamp I have for amplification and never thought to bring it.

 

[AGCurry]

Nice music! I like it.

I've never heard the word "frap" as other than an onomatopoeia for the sound of farting, but I hear what your BL is complaining about. It sounds to me like a speaker that can't handle the power it's asked to deliver, or a sympathetic rattle. You didn't hit clipping into the mixer, but the analog part of your signal chain may well be in the red... or the pickup, or some other part of your bass, is rattling... or you're playing too hard. Maybe it would have benefited from a high-pass filter.

I would not record a double bass direct ... some do, of course, but isn't one reason we play these ungodly things to be able to play acoustically (and record same)? Once you go direct to the board, you're close to slab territory IMO.

Anyway, to my ears this recording is plenty good for a demo!

 

[MichelD]

Nice music! I like it.

I've never heard the word "frap" as other than an onomatopoeia for the sound of farting, but I hear what your BL is complaining about. It sounds to me like a speaker that can't handle the power it's asked to deliver, or a sympathetic rattle. You didn't hit clipping into the mixer, but the analog part of your signal chain may well be in the red... or the pickup, or some other part of your bass, is rattling... or you're playing too hard. Maybe it would have benefited from a high-pass filter.

I would not record a double bass direct ... some do of course, but isn't one reason we play these ungodly things to be able to play acoustically (and record same)?

Anyway, to my ears this recording is plenty good for a demo!

Of course I would have preferred to put a mic on the bass, but with only four mic inputs, for expediency we plugged direct. I said at the outset "when you plug this thing in, it basically becomes an electric bass."

 

[John Chambliss]

The bass does sound distorted as if the input signal is too strong somewhere. I agree with using a mic instead.

 

[cheapbasslovin]

It ws a kind of quick and dirty recording we did at rehearsal with the accordion players little mixer and laptop. He used Pro Logic I think. I have a Fishman preamp I have for amplification and never thought to bring it.

I suspect that would help. There's probably a huge impedance mismatch between the pickup and line in. It could just be poor gain staging, but I think the other thing is more likely.

 

[Carl Hillman]

I'm beginning to think your singer/bandleader just doesn't like the bass.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Pro Logic? Get him to re-amp the bass signal & selectively cut/compress the narrow band of frequencies that are causing the frapping.

 

[Don Hergert]

Hmmm. It seems like your band leader is continually trying to set you up for failure. Is there more going on than just his continual under-provisioning recording sessions and then complaining about the bass with them?

If it were me I'd be asking the band's previous bassists if they had the same kind of problem with the band leader.

The long and short of it is your bass playing sounds great. It's just that the recording processes are not taking into consideration how the double bass sounds best when it is recorded.

 

[Jrussblues]

Where are you in Louisiana?

 

[MichelD]

Where are you in Louisiana?

I can only take that as a compliment.

I'm on the Pacific Coast of Canada.

 

[Dabndug]

I've heard (and possibly played on) way worse demos. On a lo-fi device (like a phone speaker) it sounds great. The bass tone may be a little "unconventional" if you really focus on it, but it is fine in the mix for the purpose of a demo.

 

[Ed S]

Hmmm. It seems like your band leader is continually trying to set you up for failure. Is there more going on than just his continual under-provisioning recording sessions and then complaining about the bass with them?
...

Perfectly said.

 

[MichelD]

Perfectly said.

Hmmm. It seems like your band leader is continually trying to set you up for failure. Is there more going on than just his continual under-provisioning recording sessions and then complaining about the bass with them?

If it were me I'd be asking the band's previous bassists if they had the same kind of problem with the band leader.

The long and short of it is your bass playing sounds great. It's just that the recording processes are not taking into consideration how the double bass sounds best when it is recorded.

Well.....He initially said that he wanted to make quick and dirty recordings with a Zoom to help get gigs, but then once we started attempting to record with minimal gear, he started to get all picky about it.

We tried with the accordion players tiny 4-track mixer and that was when I plugged direct and that turned out unsatisfactory (to him) then my friend with more gear only wanted to come and listen, but was talked into bringing at least a Zoom and two mics, and that turned out better, but the BL recorded with his own Zoom and declared me too loud. Then he was shocked that my friend was able to mix down the Zoom recording he had made so that it was balanced.

It goes on and on.

We'll try with my friend's 16-track mobile and mics on everything on the 13th.

 

[eh_train]

I'm on the Pacific Coast of Canada.

So, the extreme northwest of Louisiana...

 

[MichelD]

So, the extreme northwest of Louisiana...

Yeah, pretty much.

 

[Francois Blais]

Nice tune!
With that kind of music/instruments setup, I think I wouldn't use a pickup.
Stay nearby one of the mics, and it should do the job.

Maybe the leader simply doesn't like your bass tone?
I'd suggest strings with more thump/boom, and less sustain.
Orchestral type strings come to mind; Jargar, Flexocor, Helicore orchestral, Kaplan, etc.

Just my $0.02 of course.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

I think maybe the bass is maybe a tad overdriven, but I don’t know what “frapping” is? I used an underwood for 20 years and I was always able to get a better sound out of it going into a board with a preamp; although I would always prefer to record with mics only. My favorite recorded bass tone I ever got was in an isolation room with me and a D-112 near the F-hole and a Shure SM-57 aimed at the fingerboard — and we recorded to two inch tape back then in the 90s (which was perfect for rockabilly).

I love y’all’s creole sound BTW — the slap sounds great in that genre of music.

 

[project_c]

Logic Pro user here (although not an expert in this genre). To my ears the bass recording is fine in context, and will work fine in a mix with some gentle EQ and compression. Perhaps use a transient shaper to smooth out the dynamics if there are big spikes in the signal. A bit of clipping or a little extra noise doesn’t have to make a recording useless unless you’re going for an ultra-clean and synthetic studio tone.