Is there a "wrong" way??

[retslock]

I couldn’t care less if it is technically correct or not.

Fixed.

 

[IamGroot]

I agree with others, there is no "wrong" way. However, with an instrument as physically demanding as bass (especially factoring in upright bass), there are techniques that are better - either that are less likely to result in injury, or that give you more facility and/or more ability to execute more complicated passages more easily. Two examples are baseball grip (ie, wrapping your thumb around the top of the neck rather than placing it behind the neck), and shifting positions.

If we are talking upright, technique is king. You can hear it, especially if bowed. I had the opportunity to see Paul Ellison play close-up and it was a transforming experience.

On the other side of the coin, Willie Dixon and Roy Huskey Jr. did not use classically correct hand positioning, but they had a system and got it done.

 

[SteveCS]

Between differences in bass scale lengths, strings (how balanced or unbalanced is the string set), then pickups, microphone vs DI (or combination of), compression, E.Q. and the rest of the work flow to mastering, etc, what works in terms of timbre between how it was played in the recording session versus someone else with a quite different setup (different bass type, scale, pickups and strings) could lead to a not so straight forward perception from listening to the recording, the interpretation, translation or emulation.

With most songs there's at least two ways/positions to play a song with reasonably similar timbre and of course there are ways to do it with obviously different timbre--trying to not say wrong.

That's not to say I disagree with you.

You are right - there are many more factors at play. I didn't want to go into that level of detail but it all matters and all comes to bear. Yes, every instrument/amp/player combination is different and it may be impossible for any one player with their bass through their amp to get even close to what they are hearing, in which case it just comes down to their own sensibilities as to what works 'best'. Could be that what works well on one instrument is not so good on another even with the same player. Of course there is also the very real possibility of coming up with something that improves on what has gone before, so you have to be ready for that!!

 

[SteveCS]

Are you having to jump all over the neck or are you playing in one position? There is definitely a right way and wrong way. If you are hitting all the right notes but are not utilizing economy of motion there is a problem.

Economy of motion is not sacrosanct and should never take priority over the demands of the music, IMHO.

 

[micguy]

Space Invader by The Pretenders is another. Live they played in standard 440 EADG tuning. On the recording they're tuned down half a step, or the recording was manipulated to sound tuned down a half step.

Early Van Halen tunes are usually not in any actual key - they're often a quarter step-ish down from standard tuning Eddie would tune his guitar to what sounded good to him, Michael tuned his bass to Eddie's guitar, and away they went. I taught myself to play bass by playing along with the radio, and when a Van Halen tune came on, you quickly re-tuned - it helped me get fast at tuning, so there's that.

When "Jump" came out, that era ended - Eddie had to tune to the keyboard, so he could play both on the same tune and not sound like manure.

 

[micguy]

I occasionally play with a particular singer/songwriter/guitarist. During one set, we play an original tune I learned from a studio recording. This singer/songwriter had played the bass part on this recording.

After the set, this guy told me that he would rather I play this one sequence of notes higher up the neck, rather than in 1st position because the notes sounded fatter.

I could really feel the petulant teenager in me fighting to come out. I took the time to learn that bass part and put care and respect into that song as if it were my own. He did have a valid point about notes sounding fatter when played on fatter strings, but man oh man. I thought he was reaching new heights with regards to splitting hairs and micromanagement.

You're playing bass for someone who is presenting their work, and who is knowledgeable enough about your instrument to give you suggestions as to how to present his music a bit better. That's a lot better than working with James and Lars, who bury your part so noone hears it. Yes, getting constructive feedback often raises the argumentative 13 year old inside of you, but if you want to get better, having someone suggest improvements here and there and integrating that into your playing is part of that. Consider yourself lucky

 

[Grinderman]

Early Van Halen tunes are usually not in any actual key - they're often a quarter step-ish down from standard tuning Eddie would tune his guitar to what sounded good to him, Michael tuned his bass to Eddie's guitar, and away they went. I taught myself to play bass by playing along with the radio, and when a Van Halen tune came on, you quickly re-tuned - it helped me get fast at tuning, so there's that.

When "Jump" came out, that era ended - Eddie had to tune to the keyboard, so he could play both on the same tune and not sound like manure.

Yeah, another classic example.

I mainly started playing along to records. Luckily, my father, an engineer, was and still is very picky about keeping all of his things in ship-shape condition--including the pitch on his turntable.

 

[Grinderman]

Yeah, another classic example.

I mainly started playing along to records. Luckily, my father, an engineer, was and still is very picky about keeping all of his things in ship-shape condition--including the pitch on his turntable.

This brings to mind another thing. I come at this loving and listening to music and using my ears, as I'm sure virtually everyone here does. That of course includes countless examples of musicians/bands covering songs from other artists.

How many of them played it right or wrong?



Coincidentally, this was in The Guardian yesterday.

Andy Fairweather Low: ‘Jimi Hendrix sidled over and politely told me: you’re in the wrong key’

 

[micguy]

It's a very context-dependent question. If you're in music school or other serious instrument study, then you want to always be practicing with optimal technique - because that's the whole point, you're literally wasting your time doing anything else.

If the goal of a music school is to turn out people who always play with "optimal technique", I'd go looking for a different school. I want to optimize the music myself.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

When "Jump" came out, that era ended - Eddie had to tune to the keyboard, so he could play both on the same tune and not sound like manure.

Eddie played keys well before "Jump" on "The Cradle Will Rock"...

Before DAW's, some artists varied tape speeds to change tempos, varying pitch. A great example is Tom Petty's "Last Dance With Mary Jane".

 

[SteveCS]

If you're in music school or other serious instrument study, then you want to always be practicing with optimal technique - because that's the whole point

If the goal of a music school is to turn out people who always play with "optimal technique", I'd go looking for a different school. I want to optimize the music myself.

I'm not sure it's quite as binary or mutually exclusive as that, and to some degree I think we are looking at the same thing from opposite perspectives. Optimal technique and optimised music are not the same thing but they are inextricably linked, IMHO. The point of the schools - at least the good ones - is to equip students with the highest levels of technique and musicianship such that they can optimise (interpret, arrange and sucessfully execute) the music for themselves or in response to the requirements of the director or composer. Optimal technique is the one that produces the required sounds, and the sounds required derive from the optimised 'vision' of the music - how you (or the director/composer) want it to sound. If the school churns out armies of brain-dead automatons then I agree with @micguy. On the other hand, I suspect @BarfanyShart is not referring to that type of school - hence two views of the same thing.

Modern (contemporary classical at least) music requires a lot more variation in sound than older music. It also requires ever-expanding imagination to interpret and bring to life. Imagination and vision are useless without the technical means of realisation. Accordingly, the technical 'palette' continues to expand to address these demands. It does not mean rote repetition, cloned interpretations, cookie-cut recitals or anonymous productions. If anything, those are charges that might be brought against the rash of on-line EBG instructors all over YouTube that all, to me at least, sound the same. YMMV

 

[micguy]

27280309[/URL], member: 322711"]

Before DAW's, some artists varied tape speeds to change tempos, varying pitch. A great example is Tom Petty's "Last Dance With Mary Jane".

That was very common practice - the Beatles did it to match keys and tempo on a song, which was originally 2 different recordings. IIRC, it was Penny Lane.

My band did it on a couple recordings - slowing the tape to let the singer reach the pitch easier. It has the side effect, when the tape is brought back up to speed, of making you sound “younger” - a semitone is a cool effect, but much more than that, it becomes artificial sounding.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

Early Van Halen tunes are usually not in any actual key - they're often a quarter step-ish down from standard tuning Eddie would tune his guitar to what sounded good to him, Michael tuned his bass to Eddie's guitar, and away they went. I taught myself to play bass by playing along with the radio, and when a Van Halen tune came on, you quickly re-tuned - it helped me get fast at tuning, so there's that.

AC/DC was the same way until Mutt Lange came along (I frequently say he "taught" them how to tune their instruments).

 

[micguy]

AC/DC was the same way until Mutt Lange came along (I frequently say he "taught" them how to tune their instruments).

Between bands that didn’t tune to pitch, and radio stations playing tape cartridges (tape machines don’t always play at exactly the specified speed), tunes on the radio were often all over the map in terms of tuning.

 

[Hawk256]

Between bands that didn’t tune to pitch, and radio stations playing tape cartridges (tape machines don’t always play at exactly the specified speed), tunes on the radio were often all over the map in terms of tuning.

Even some turntables were subject to being off.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

Even some turntables were subject to being off.

Back in the day, I had a Gerard (? Girard ? I forget the spelling) with a strobe synchronizer.

 

[Hawk256]

Back in the day, I had a Gerard (? Girard ? I forget the spelling) with a strobe synchronizer.

Never had a good turntable. Mine was one step above hand cranking. We had a console stereo from the 60's (even came with "stereo" demo album) until I bought my own gear. Spent a good chunk on a Realistic component set and a pretty decent cassete deck. That was hi-fi to me.

 

[Deleted member 394181]

I worked summer jobs in Germany to buy stereo equipment at our Post Exchange. So I always had good sounding music. The key to any stereo system is getting an Equalizer. And great headphones.

 

[flomaster]

Is this this song? She is clearly playing in one position. (546) Liliac - Chain of Thorns (Official Music Video) - YouTube

Yep. That's it.

But I wasn't playing it at the center of the neck (I'm not even sure she's actually playing, though). For whatever reason it's easier for me to play it at the top of the neck, so that's what I do.

 

[flomaster]

I never expected so much input from such a simple question. I guess the question, and the answers for that matter, wasn't simple after all.

My goal at the time was just to get a laugh out of the guitarist. I didn't know the guy, but he GTFO when the douche started opening up. I wonder if he's run into him before.

In any case I don't care. I'm going to continue to play things on the part of the fretboard that works for me and for whatever it is I'm playing.