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Is there any hope for my fretless playing?

mjcarp79

mjcarp79

May 3, 2017
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#1
I love the sound and feel of fretless, but I have a confidence issue with intonation.

The trouble is, I don't know if my intonation is really terrible, or if I am being too hard on myself, or most likely, somewhere in between these two.

I would like to post a sample of some of my fretless playing here, with the hope that I could get some objective evaluations.

This track is not my song: a musician that I work with laid this down as a rough sketch for a song idea, and asked me to come up with a bass line. The resulting track is a rough mix of his sketch with my rough bass idea.

Now I know that I have a few totally out of tune notes (especially toward the beginning), but I wonder if my intonation on ANY of it is good enough to actually be useable. Thanks!

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
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#2
Yes! It's useable! I like what I hear!

Isn't it the "thing" and "appeal" of a fretless bass that the intonation is never perfect? Especially with high register notes.

Even when we hear professional jazz stand up bass players do solos...........their intonation is off.

Enjoyed your sound clip! Keep up the good work. You will always continue to get better and better.
 
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#3
If I play in tune, then I'm expected to sing in tune, it just snowballs from there.

play what you enjoy, and sell earplugs at your gigs. $5 each.

industrial-ear-plugs-bulk.jpg
 
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#4
Only listened to the first 90-seconds, but it sounds fine.

Sure it could be cleaned up bit, but the bones are there.

Couple things:

1) Is your fretless lined? It will help your intonation (rather than just dots on the side of the fretboard), assuming your bass is intonated properly.

2) Does this tune need fretless? If you're spending most of your practice time working on intonation, and the lines you're writing don't really exploit the fretless, why use it? You could easily play this tune on a fretted bass. The note choices are great, and I don't think the "fretlessness" adds anything unmissible to this particular tune?

3) Your intonation is fine. (or your ear, at least). Yes there are a couple sour notes, but if you really want to sacrifice yourself on the altar of fretless (or upright, for that matter), it means hours and hours of intonation practice. (This is why the precision bass is called a PRECISION bass. The intonation is precise, compared to an upright.)
 
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#5
bassdude51 said:
Yes! It's useable! I like what I hear!

Isn't it the "thing" and "appeal" of a fretless bass that the intonation is never perfect? Especially with high register notes.

Even when we hear professional jazz stand up bass players do solos...........their intonation is off.

Enjoyed your sound clip! Keep up the good work. You will always continue to get better and better.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback! I have struggled with with the idea that my intonation has to be "perfect" in order to be useable. Your positive comments give my confidence a boost. Thanks!
 
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#7
fu22ba55 said:
Only listened to the first 90-seconds, but it sounds fine.

Sure it could be cleaned up bit, but the bones are there.

Couple things:

1) Is your fretless lined? It will help your intonation (rather than just dots on the side of the fretboard), assuming your bass is intonated properly.

2) Does this tune need fretless? If you're spending most of your practice time working on intonation, and the lines you're writing don't really exploit the fretless, why use it? You could easily play this tune on a fretted bass. The note choices are great, and I don't think the "fretlessness" adds anything unmissible to this particular tune?

3) Your intonation is fine. (or your ear, at least). Yes there are a couple sour notes, but if you really want to sacrifice yourself on the altar of fretless (or upright, for that matter), it means hours and hours of intonation practice. (This is why the precision bass is called a PRECISION bass. The intonation is precise, compared to an upright.)
Click to expand...

Yes, it is a lined fretless.

No, this tune really doesn't need fretless. The original sample was out of tune enough that I simply grabbed the fretless so that I could try to compensate. My idea was to use fretted bass for the actual recording (which may be happing soon, we shall see.) I found that I just like the tone of my fretless so much that I have been toying with the idea of using it the recording. I am undecided at this point.

Thanks for the positive comments!
 
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#13
I agree with others here. You came up with a nice bass line, and though the intonation was a bit off here and there early in the track, by about halfway through your intonation sounded right on. Fretless does require a lot of practice if you want your intonation to be as good as it possibly can, but it sounds like you are definitely in a good place with it. Like others have said, if you wanna record with the fretless, go for it. Nice work.
 
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#14
I think it I'd good. Don't stress about perfect because it gets better with practice.
2 thing I'd suggest; run a tuner while you practice sometimes and play live with others. A tuner that's moderately quick that enables you to play through without muting is the trick. I practice with a basic Polytune Mini for fretless. Just regularly enough to see when you are too sharp or flat. Your finger isn't as precise as a fret so you can live with it as you learn. Hit The Roots. That way nobody else will know. Practice/jam with your guitarist. I find that automatic correction kicks in when I'm playing with others a lot sooner than when I'm playing alone. (That's why I use a tuner for some practice). Keep it up. Don't freak about perfection because the stepwise improvement takes a little time.
Also, vibrato is not cheating. Use it to your advantage. You got this.

OK, if all else seems too daunting any music store that sells violins has marker tape, thin tape that beginners learn to set their positions.
 
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#15
mjcarp79 said:
I found that I just like the tone of my fretless so much that I have been toying with the idea of using it the recording. I am undecided at this point.
Click to expand...

There are bits where the fretless is adding and bits where it doesn't matter.

If you've got doubts, take two basses and record both versions. That way its out of your hands, you know you gave them a "correct" version, and you don't have to stress if the fretless version is less than perfect in one or two places. Worst cast the band use the fretted version, or the engineer punches in a few notes from the "in tune" version.

If you're anxious about it, then you don't want to be putting more pressure on yourself to nail a fretless version perfectly in a high pressure environment. Getting a fretted version in the bag means you can have a few goes fretless, have some fun, and if they come out good even better.
 
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#16
mjcarp79 said:
I love the sound and feel of fretless, but I have a confidence issue with intonation.

The trouble is, I don't know if my intonation is really terrible, or if I am being too hard on myself, or most likely, somewhere in between these two.

I would like to post a sample of some of my fretless playing here, with the hope that I could get some objective evaluations.

This track is not my song: a musician that I work with laid this down as a rough sketch for a song idea, and asked me to come up with a bass line. The resulting track is a rough mix of his sketch with my rough bass idea.

Now I know that I have a few totally out of tune notes (especially toward the beginning), but I wonder if my intonation on ANY of it is good enough to actually be useable. Thanks!

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...
It sounds fine. Question - do you play with the one-finger-per-fret technique? If not, it does help because the finger that will play the next note will already be in position.
 
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#17
Run through a Turbo Tuner, or Strobostomp. When I practice electric my turbo tuner is always on, being fed via the tuner out on my amp, it's tracking is astoundingly fast. When I play my double bass I use peterson's strobe tuner app. That app is only $5-10. I don't stare at it, but while practicing if something sounds off I can take a quick peek and verify and correct.
 
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#18
Sounds fine - yes, your intonation is off here and there, but not obviously so to anyone but a person with perfect pitch or another bass player (the guitar players in most of the bands I have played in over the years would never have noticed that small amount of being out of tune in their own playing).

I play fretless also and the most important thing for me to feel good about my intonation is being able to clearly hear myself. I ended up going with in ear monitors for this reason - I can have my bass-centric mix without blowing everyone out with a loud stage volume (and protecting my hearing at the same time).

I know people recommend lined over unlined, but I have not really noticed a huge difference for myself if I can hear myself well. (I have one lined and two unlined fretless basses). If you can't hear yourself well in the mix - lined fretless is the way to go.

Great song and welcome to the fretless club!
 
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#19
smtp4me said:
It sounds fine. Question - do you play with the one-finger-per-fret technique? If not, it does help because the finger that will play the next note will already be in position.
Click to expand...
I try to use the one finger per fret technique, but I struggle with it in the lower registers on the neck. I am solidly doing one finger per fret at the 5th fret and above, but it kind of breaks down closer to the nut.
 
#20
You got this...just keep investing hours. I find lined fretless basses more difficult cause I can't lean over far enough to see them and the side dots are not in the correct positions..but that's just my personal taste.
I have 35" 34" and 30.5" scale fretless basses and it doesn't seem to matter which I pick up. I have a tuner in my pedalboard I leave on all the time for visual confidence. I also often check the 5th fret and 7th fret against the open notes when I'm at home. Also the 12th against the harmonic and G, D, A and E against open strings...
Trust the force...and practice :)
 
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