I've got an Epifani T-110 that (with adequate power) is fine for most stages but, it looks like a joke with my giant SVT or power amp on top of it.
It does sound pretty awesome though.
It does sound pretty awesome though.
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Is there realy any need for huge rigs?
- Thread starter ed99999
- Start date
Many of those defending a "small rig" are talking about 400 watts into a 4x10, or 600 watts into a 2x12, etc. I'm going with that definition.
If the guitarists are running full stacks (100 watts tube into two 4x12's), big rigs are probably necessary. IME, the drums aren't driving the volume (although the cymbals and snare may be very loud). These situations are for young fools, in my opinion.
The kick drum and the toms don't drive the volume up unless they're mic'd. I'm a drummer, trust me on that. Heavy cymbals that can cut through a Marshall stack just don't sound good. That's my opinion, but I've been playing drums for over 30 years, so I think there's some weight behind it. If the drummer is any good he can control the snare so it blends in with the kick, toms and cymbals. In short, unmic'd drums don't drive the bassist to needing a big rig.
So if you've got a halfway reasonable drummer and guitarists who don't insist on being too loud, there is no need for a "big rig", again meaning a lot more than a typical 400 watt amp into a 4x10. If you insist on playing an Acme cab you might want a 1000 watt amp or something.
RunMikeyRun's small PA situations don't require a big rig in my experience. The audiences wants to hear the vocals. A bigger rig isn't going to rectify that situation. I've been in good sized PA situations (mics on every drum, bass DI'd, etc.) where a 1x12 Fender combo was loud enough that the sound guy told me he pulled it out of the PA. We were comfortably loud. The bassist was playing through an Ampeg B3-158 combo (biamped combo, 100 watts into a 15, 50 watts into an 8), BTW.
There are situations (outdoor festivals, really large shows) where a big rig is nice to have, but even then a big rig is not necessary because the PA is doing the heavy lifting. For most of the gigs that everyone I'm on a first name basis with, the big rigs aren't necessary to the point that when I need one I'll rent one because it doesn't happen more than once a year.
Some bands insist on full Marshall stacks and SVTs with two fridges. If that's what they want to do to themselves, I'm not the guy to talk them out of it. For the stuff I do, you never need more than 400 watts into a 4x10 and the guitarists in 1x12 or 2x12 (at most) combo amps. Once the need to cut through full Marshall stacks goes away, most drummers opt for cymbals with a good tone, so they aren't the problem, either. A moderate sized rig (e.g. 400 watts into a 4x10) is enough. At that point everything just falls together as long as everyone has a genuine interest in hearing their bandmates.
KO
If the guitarists are running full stacks (100 watts tube into two 4x12's), big rigs are probably necessary. IME, the drums aren't driving the volume (although the cymbals and snare may be very loud). These situations are for young fools, in my opinion.
The kick drum and the toms don't drive the volume up unless they're mic'd. I'm a drummer, trust me on that. Heavy cymbals that can cut through a Marshall stack just don't sound good. That's my opinion, but I've been playing drums for over 30 years, so I think there's some weight behind it. If the drummer is any good he can control the snare so it blends in with the kick, toms and cymbals. In short, unmic'd drums don't drive the bassist to needing a big rig.
So if you've got a halfway reasonable drummer and guitarists who don't insist on being too loud, there is no need for a "big rig", again meaning a lot more than a typical 400 watt amp into a 4x10. If you insist on playing an Acme cab you might want a 1000 watt amp or something.
RunMikeyRun's small PA situations don't require a big rig in my experience. The audiences wants to hear the vocals. A bigger rig isn't going to rectify that situation. I've been in good sized PA situations (mics on every drum, bass DI'd, etc.) where a 1x12 Fender combo was loud enough that the sound guy told me he pulled it out of the PA. We were comfortably loud. The bassist was playing through an Ampeg B3-158 combo (biamped combo, 100 watts into a 15, 50 watts into an 8), BTW.
There are situations (outdoor festivals, really large shows) where a big rig is nice to have, but even then a big rig is not necessary because the PA is doing the heavy lifting. For most of the gigs that everyone I'm on a first name basis with, the big rigs aren't necessary to the point that when I need one I'll rent one because it doesn't happen more than once a year.
Some bands insist on full Marshall stacks and SVTs with two fridges. If that's what they want to do to themselves, I'm not the guy to talk them out of it. For the stuff I do, you never need more than 400 watts into a 4x10 and the guitarists in 1x12 or 2x12 (at most) combo amps. Once the need to cut through full Marshall stacks goes away, most drummers opt for cymbals with a good tone, so they aren't the problem, either. A moderate sized rig (e.g. 400 watts into a 4x10) is enough. At that point everything just falls together as long as everyone has a genuine interest in hearing their bandmates.
KO
The definition is all over the map. I run an 1100 watt amp through a 215. That's my "big rig", but really it's not that big. I guess it's a matter of perspective, huh? But to the point, YES, adequete enough amplification is still a necessity, imho. Even if know one else care's, I like good tone on stage.
Even if I'm going through PA support at a show,
I use my rig. Why? Sometimes in the middle of our set, I walk over to right in front of my rig mid-song and just listen to my tone for a sec, you see people doing it all the time. It helps keep yourself pumped up.
I don't have a PA where my band practices, everyone runs through their own amp.
My monitor mixes almost ALWAYS blow, end of story.
.... I can keep going why I'll play all my gigs with my 810. Yeah, I don't show up to play worship music with it. I do, however, use it every time with my band.
I use my rig. Why? Sometimes in the middle of our set, I walk over to right in front of my rig mid-song and just listen to my tone for a sec, you see people doing it all the time. It helps keep yourself pumped up.
I don't have a PA where my band practices, everyone runs through their own amp.
My monitor mixes almost ALWAYS blow, end of story.
.... I can keep going why I'll play all my gigs with my 810. Yeah, I don't show up to play worship music with it. I do, however, use it every time with my band.
I play a big rig mostly just to get the speakers closer to ear level. We have an awsome, loud drummer, and a smaller rig might be plenty loud for the sound guy and the audience, but when I'm right in front of it, a rig thats at my knees is hard to hear. You can always turn a big rig down.
Old revived thread....
I would have like to hear what kind of gigs that you're playing (original/cover), size of venue, and frequency of gigging.
As a cover band weekend warrior, I'm carting the stuff 6 times or so a month (4 gigs/a couple rehearsals). Playing small stages, small/midsize bars from 50- 300 people. Either our own PA or small house system (no subs).
Yup, all the bass comes from me. The smallest rig I can carry that produces enough volume. Eden 1x15" and 2x10". My back hates it.
I'd love an 8x10" cab. Always was my favorite. Couldn't move it, wouldn't fit. If I could get away with 2 1x12" cabs, I would. Maybe I can - that'll be a search or another thread.
js
I would have like to hear what kind of gigs that you're playing (original/cover), size of venue, and frequency of gigging.
As a cover band weekend warrior, I'm carting the stuff 6 times or so a month (4 gigs/a couple rehearsals). Playing small stages, small/midsize bars from 50- 300 people. Either our own PA or small house system (no subs).
Yup, all the bass comes from me. The smallest rig I can carry that produces enough volume. Eden 1x15" and 2x10". My back hates it.
I'd love an 8x10" cab. Always was my favorite. Couldn't move it, wouldn't fit. If I could get away with 2 1x12" cabs, I would. Maybe I can - that'll be a search or another thread.
js
I carry a big rig just to piss off the guitar player..
A couple of bands back in my history, I had (still have) an EBMM SR5 -> Demeter VTBP-201S -> QSC PLX1602 (bridged = 1600W) -> a Schroeder 410R.
When the two guitarists got too loud at practice, I would cut the volume on my bass all the way down, crank my 201S & PLX, strum a 'B' chord on my bass and crank the bass guitar volume up until they hollered "Uncle" and knew it was time to turn down because they would totally lose the volume game.
Luckily, my last two bands have actually had sane guitarists, so I have much easier situation.
There are no words ... talk about stage presence!
... And yes it's real, 9 feet tall, 720 lbs "Worlds Largest Working Amplifer" a Guinness record
... And yes it's real, 9 feet tall, 720 lbs "Worlds Largest Working Amplifer" a Guinness record
Necessity is not really the case. Even playing the largest stadiums one could get away with a nice DI and in ears. However, the place I am in music is playing indie/rock/pop and the visual is very much an aspect. I am a true believer in my American Made ONLY Ampeg Gear and love to rock it any chance I get. I own 2 SVT-Classics (one black one anniversary), an SVT-4 Pro, and 3 8x10's. I believe nothing moves air or bumps like the 810 and love playing through it. When I play live I put two on stage, but one cab gets used as a dummy cab. For smaller shows I bring one Classic, for bigger just in case I bring two. You never know. There is a method and reason behind all the madness. Thoughts?
As all the cool kids will tell you, there's no need for amps at all.
I'll go one better; there's no need for bass guitar. Yet here we are, bass players, and some of us even have big amps.
I'll go one better; there's no need for bass guitar. Yet here we are, bass players, and some of us even have big amps.
This last Saturday night we did a gig for about 300 indoors. I ran my GK700rbII into an Avatar sb112. My main volume was on about 11:00, boost was 12:00., everything else flat at 12:00. Bass main volume about 70%. I used my GK's DI out to the mixer, and my bass was in everyones face like it should be. Fairly loud drummer, with only the bass drum mic'ed. Lead guitar played his Fender tweed deluxe 112 ,40 watt tube amp, miced w/ an sm57, His main volume was on #3 or (9:00). Rythm Guitar played a Peavey Classic 212 tweed tube amp, on 2 1/2. ( or 8:00) not miced at all. The stage volume was comfortable enough that I could talk to anyone on stage during a song, but out front it was a "healthy" volume thru a 15" main, a 12" main , and a 15" active sub ,on each side. Probably in the neighborhood of 325 watts per side, out front, not counting the subs.
Showbiz is a big part of the music business, and big cab rigs are showbiz. But they also serve a purpose. I prefer a tall stack, too. I'm too old to use an SVT/810 on a regular basis anymore, but I still stack two 115's for my rig, and I request an 810 on my fly gigs. Yeah, I could bring a 112 or 115 combo and do the gig just fine (and I do on gigs with tough load-ins or bad weather), but I like the way more than one speaker sounds, and I like to feel it in a taller stack. I don't think there's much benefit in bringing anything bigger than an810, but a lot of people do who are way better than me, so who am I to argue? One thing you can't argue about, though, is how cool it looks, and coolness counts in entertainment, and make no mistake...playing music IS entertainment. I'm not saying a jazz trio should bring an 810, but the people who make the most money in music in my area are generally pretty entertaining to watch.
Without readin any of the responses I feel completly justified in saying "no, there is no need for a monster rig". No one really needs more than a 410. Now if you want more, go for it, but anyone who "needs" a larger rig to be heard really needs to quit playing with dumbasses who crank their volume to stupid levels.
Why compete with morons? It just brings you down to their level.
Why compete with morons? It just brings you down to their level.
There are way too many morons out there not to have to compete with them now and then
I totally agree about volume, but again, big cabs aren't always about volume. I'd much rather use a bigger cab on 1 than a small cab on 10. It just sounds better to me.
I agree that you don't need a huge rig with the help of the PA, and you only need enough to be heard on stage. But in my case, the more power and bigger cabs I get, my guitarist somehow manages to out do me everytime. In our practice room, I have a GB 12.0 Shuttle max going into an avatar 210 neo and an Ampeg 410 BXt and I have to run at about 2 o clock to compete.
Your guitarist may not be a moron, but he's flirting with it. Everyone in the band should try to achieve a good balance WITH EACH OTHER, not trying to outdo each other. Your guitarist is showing his immaturity as a musician. Oh well, getting your band fired a couple times will straighten him out.
BTW, I have to correct something I said earlier...turns out I'm NOT too old to lug an SVT and 810 around
Just started doing it and I absolutely love it. I still don't turn up very loud...I just love the sound of the big cab and the big iron in the head.
You've been on TB for 2 and a half years and you need to ask that question? Please! You haven't seen how many people on here try to shove their tastes down your throat?
- Mar 30, 2007
- 4,017
- 321
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Genzler Amplification/Spector Basses/Mojo Hand FX
Big rigs are absolutely esscential...we all need a couple of clothes dryers and a sandwich machine on stage so the folks in the cheap seats and feel their pants move...
