Is there realy any need for huge rigs?

[pedro]

I posted in this thread before I was even in a band, and only had a relatively small part of what I use now. This is my rig now...

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3 200W amps, 2x15, 2x15, 4x12, 1x18, 4x10.

I'm in a drum and bass, stoner rock/doom band. It's music that is supposed to be loud. I use that setup at every show we play, and most of those have been shows in peoples basements, or at VFW halls, small places, where the crowd is usually right on top of you.

Why do I need all that? I want our band to be oppressively loud. When we play, I can't hear myself talk unless I yell, so I've got the volume covered... And I want our band to have a physical presence, I want every note to be felt, and it is. When we play, people can't talk to each other unless they're yelling. Being immersed in sound like that, it forces everyone in the crowd to either listen, or leave, and from the positive responses we've gotten, people are listening. If people leave, then great, we're not doing this to please anyone but ourselves.

The music scenes I'm a part of allow for this thinking, and this attitude. Others wouldn't. Some people want to go... "I could never play that loud at one of my bands shows" and will proceed to tell someone else that what they use is unnecessary, not taking into account that the person might be playing for crowds and at venues that are fine with what they are doing.

My point is, live and let live, although I hate the tone of modern, lightweight gear, I'd never try to tell someone that they where wrong for using it. What you "need" is up to you and your band.

‘Live and let live’ – you’re absolutely right about that Matt but if you’re going to play at those kinds of volume please take care of your ears and consider investing some money in some quality ear plugs.

 

[svtscruggs]

All I hear is "blah blah blah, I'm a dirty tramp."

Quit whining, you all secretly wish you were young enough or strong enough to lug around all that gear.

EXACTLY! I know a fifty year old guy that lugs around a classic svt head and 8x10 cab 3 days a week down here...why? because he knows that nothing sounds better...you will never get the sound of a big rig from a compact cab...sorry! its physics...

 

[Sound Chaser]

Don't get me wrong i'm as bad as the next bloke when it comes to wanting the biggest, best and toneyest (if that's even a word!) gear but really why would you need anything over say a 2x10 and 1x15/18 rig?

Ive played in a band for a little over a year and gig a couple of times a month and everywhere we've played, bar a couple of places, I've been DI'd through the PA and on the other couple of times ive been DI'd and had a mic on my 18". None of the places have really needed me to have anything bigger than say a decent size combo all i use my amp for is foldback. The bloke who used to own our studios used to sound engineer and he said it realy got on his wires when he'd get bassists turning up with huge setups, is he right or just being a dick?

I'm not trying to start arguements, just trying to reasure myself that there is no need for say 2 8x10 or massive combinations?! other than if you're trying to make yourself heard in a gig without a big front of house system.

Ed

Most of the time the huge amps have more features and probably will sound better. More than one of the same amp is just to look good, and if you have the roadies and the budget hey why not?

 

[mrkreuzschlitz]

If you don't mind carrying the amp,
then no one else should tell you to get the newest lightweight fad,
ever.

You pay the bills, they don't. I can't STAND it when people bash someone else for having a 50 pound head or a 200 pound cab,
who cares? It's their rig, not yours.

I tend to play better when I can really feel and hear myself. Its just a confidence thing, I'm more confident because I can tell what's coming out of my bass better than just guessing, or god forbid, telling everyone I don't "need to hear it."

There are amps for a reason, use the big ones if you want.

 

[RickenBoogie]

Amen to that.

 

[Red Planet]

If you don't mind carrying the amp,
then no one else should tell you to get the newest lightweight fad,
ever.

You pay the bills, they don't. I can't STAND it when people bash someone else for having a 50 pound head or a 200 pound cab,
who cares? It's their rig, not yours.

I tend to play better when I can really feel and hear myself. Its just a confidence thing, I'm more confident because I can tell what's coming out of my bass better than just guessing, or god forbid, telling everyone I don't "need to hear it."

There are amps for a reason, use the big ones if you want.

Agreed.

To me it comes down to personal preference and the reality of each specific situation. In my Band I would have a hard time with one of those pipsqueak rigs. Our Guitar Player runs two 50 watt Amps all of the time and he keeps them cranked. Our monitors would not hardly be enough, it's easy enuff to pump it in the Mains but I would be Playing Blind so to speak without being able to hear/feel myself. Our Keyboardist uses his own Mixer, Rack Setup, and Mini PA for onstage Monitoring. He sets one JBL Powered Eon 15 Cab on each side of the stage, one directly behind me and one behind him. I like it like that, this allows me to really hear/feel/ enjoy his craftyness on the Keys.

I guess I should mention we play loud baby.

I have the power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tired_Thumb]

Different strokes for different folks, I'm not going to argue that. If your Markbass combo or Ampeg fridge covers most to all of your needs, I couldn't be happier for you. However, remember this. If you're filling in on a paying gig at any particular venue, you're the employee, not the employer, and what you're using had better satisfy the guy cutting your paycheck.

What is interesting is that I'm a 25 year old metalhead at heart who actually prefers going as small as possible. If I can use my 115 and 2x8 and DI the rest to the PA, I'm happy. I'm even happier if I can DI my Pod X3 Live to a PA and have a monitor in front of me. Are there any other fans of metal or other loud music who prefer going with smaller rigs rather than larger rigs?

 

[JSK5String]

Different strokes for different folks, I'm not going to argue that. If your Markbass combo or Ampeg fridge covers most to all of your needs, I couldn't be happier for you. However, remember this. If you're filling in on a paying gig at any particular venue, you're the employee, not the employer, and what you're using had better satisfy the guy cutting your paycheck.

What is interesting is that I'm a 25 year old metalhead at heart who actually prefers going as small as possible. If I can use my 115 and 2x8 and DI the rest to the PA, I'm happy. I'm even happier if I can DI my Pod X3 Live to a PA and have a monitor in front of me. Are there any other fans of metal or other loud music who prefer going with smaller rigs rather than larger rigs?

Eddie Jackson from Queensryche would qualify. He uses a DI and in-ear monitors only.

 

[JimmyM]

‘Live and let live’ – you’re absolutely right about that Matt but if you’re going to play at those kinds of volume please take care of your ears and consider investing some money in some quality ear plugs.

They all wear earplugs...that's why they all wear the druid robes and hoods...to cover the earplugs

 

[mrkreuzschlitz]

However, remember this. If you're filling in on a paying gig at any particular venue, you're the employee, not the employer, and what you're using had better satisfy the guy cutting your paycheck.

Agreed, but the thing is you can show up to a coffee shop with a couple of fridges and an SVT head.

Will you look dumb? Yes.
Will your "employer" get mad? Probably.
Who's fault is it? Yours.

Of course no one will use a big rig for a coffee shop gig, or a quiet bar stint.

Thing is, when the time comes to use a big rig, there's no reason for someone to scream for a 10" Markbass combo, even if it will do the job. Its your decision, you make it. My only rig is an Ampeg 8x10 and a pretty loud head pushing it. If I'm playing at church, I don't bring it. I bring my Sansamp and I almost never have a monitor. Its just the way it is. I could bring the fridge, but I don't, and I won't. Its your decision, don't bash others for thinking otherwise. (Not directed at you Tired Thumb )

/Thread.

 

[Tired_Thumb]

Of course no one will use a big rig for a coffee shop gig, or a quiet bar stint.

I saw a band in a small student lounge bring in full stacks, blare them at full volume, and drive half the students out. Based on commentaries I've seen in this thread, I'm assuming it happens more often than that. In the end though, as you said, don't bash others for their gear choice. My comment which you quoted was more of a warning than a rant. If anything, these bassists will end up washing themselves out of the scene if / when they go with inappropriate gear.

Also, I can see church situations where a full stack would be ideal, for instance, a new pentecostal style church which can seat about 1,000 - 2,000 people, but the church invested in a subpar PA system, which is loud enough for vocals and maybe an acoustic guitar or two, but can't handle any bass. That actually reminds me of my old church's PA system, though our church only held about 500. Having a 3/4 stack during that time was very useful.

 

[JimmyM]

Agreed, but the thing is you can show up to a coffee shop with a couple of fridges and an SVT head.

Will you look dumb? Yes.
Will your "employer" get mad? Probably.
Who's fault is it? Yours.

Of course no one will use a big rig for a coffee shop gig, or a quiet bar stint.

I've done it when I didn't have any other amp but the SVT. Of course, you have to do a little fast talking at the beginning, but once I dialed in a very reasonable volume and started playing, the complaints stopped. Amps have volume controls. Big doesn't always mean loud. Big only means loud when you turn them up too loud. Can't control your volume? That's not the amp's fault.

 

[AndyLES]

Tommy Stintson, formerly of the Replacements and now with the new lineup of Guns and Roses, is featured in the new Bass Player. He talks about how, when Axl wanted to play a few teaser dates a few years ago, he bought a huge SWR rig, with 8x10 cabs, thousands of watts, all the bells and whistles, etc.

Then he gets told, "we're all gonna use in-ears now to cut down on stage volume."

"wait-WHAT?!?!?"

Now, he's using a reissue B-15, cranked and mic'd offstage, plus a DI.

 

[JimiLL]

What are you going to do with the 500 watts that you won't be using?
Surely the 500 Little giant is what you need the 1000 watt version is not bridgable so you would have an unused 500 watt section.

One word... HEADROOM. The more unused watts behind your setup the better the sound... unless youre going for that overdriven tube thing

 

[JimiLL]

Tommy Stintson, formerly of the Replacements and now with the new lineup of Guns and Roses, is featured in the new Bass Player. He talks about how, when Axl wanted to play a few teaser dates a few years ago, he bought a huge SWR rig, with 8x10 cabs, thousands of watts, all the bells and whistles, etc.

Then he gets told, "we're all gonna use in-ears now to cut down on stage volume."

"wait-WHAT?!?!?"

Now, he's using a reissue B-15, cranked and mic'd offstage, plus a DI.

And this was for a ROCK band? A HEAVY rock band?? IN stadium type venues? Im embarassed

 

[JimmyM]

One word... HEADROOM. The more unused watts behind your setup the better the sound... unless youre going for that overdriven tube thing

Sorry, this is a concept I just can't get my head around. If you're running an amp at 100w worth of its available power, what difference is there if you have an extra 200w or an extra 900w? You're still not going to go anywhere near clipping.

 

[Pilgrim]

I've never played through a PA - we always use our own amps. But even so, for my surf band a 200W amp would be adequate. I have 400W capability in my gig amp, but I'm only using a tiny part of that. I figure I can always turn it DOWN, but to turn it up for that rare occasion, I gotta have the juice. Most of the time I'm barely above 2.

 

[Snakeman1066]

Just out of curiousity, how exactly do you get that "signature sound" to translate through the FOH???

Don't get me wrong - my gigging cab is a Mesa 610, so I'm firmly in the big rig camp - but I don't see how what you're describing could function in the real world...



- georgestrings

as i said i usually get a rash of crap for having to have two channels on their boards......when we use the FOH PA

as far as working in the real world....1 channel is dirty and the other is clean (for the most part)....once we get the levels set....i control the mix from my end from song to song....works/functions just fine....in the real world

 

[jvdb]

I have amps for different venues.

If I have to play a

small bar --> Ampeg B15
small club --> Ampeg V4 with 810
medium club and large clubs --> Ampeg SVT with 810
outdoor festivals --> Ampeg SVT with two 810's
big outdoor festivals I haven't played yet --> two SVT heads and two 810's

Or something like this would be cool... although it seems tiny next to the Marshall stacks...

 

[Sundogue]

I've been playing in bands for 30 years, some loud, some quiet, playing at tiny bars ("there's room for the band over there, if you move the pool table") to large stages.

I remember a time long ago when rock music was meant to be played loud and with an attitude. From the stage as well as through the PA. I recall one gig where our agent sent us to some little dive country bar (back when Hank Williams SR was on the jukebox) out in a vast remote wasteland. Well, we brought in our whole outdoor PA (two double 18" scoops on each side, etc. etc. etc.) and I brought in the fridge with the SVT head. This was one of those "move the pool table to fit" bars.

We thought we'd stick it to our agent for sending us to musical Siberia by cranking our volume up enough to literally knock stuff off walls and glasses off tables. As we suspected, everyone of the old farts at the bar left. The bar owner was pissed off.

But guess what? Little by little younger people started showing up but then leaving (we were ungodly loud so we must have drove them away too). But they kept coming back...and bringing more people with them. By the end of the night the bar was overflowing with people out into the parking lot and the bar owner told us afterward it was the best night he had in 30 years and wanted us back.

Moral of the story? Rock and Roll Ain't Noise pollution. Stop being such damn weenies and worrying about being so damned uptight and politically correct. Don't like how loud it is? There's the freakin' door ->!!! I'm finding more and more lately (as a vet rocker with a wife who bartends at a rock club), people are coming back to rock music and they are wanting it LOUD. And I'm not talking kids...I'm talking ALL age groups. It's about time too. I've just about had it with all this 'polite' karaoke level BS. Large loud bass rig making it hard on the soundman? We don't need no stinkin' sound man. We run it ourselves. If we had a soundman, he'd be working for us.

So is there a need for a huge rig? Obviously yes. If there wasn't, no one would make large cabs and big amps anymore. Dumb question really. Some want to go tiny, quiet or just DI. Good for you. Enjoy. That's cool you have the option today. Having to haul my own stuff to bar gigs, I'm digging lightweight gear. But it damn well better be able to get loud ONSTAGE. I play bass because I want to FEEL it. If all I wanted to do was hear it nicely, I'd be a guitard and play in a 'Bread' cover band.

I play in a classic hard rock band. I wouldn't want to offend anyone with loud rock music, now would I?

To each his own.