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Isn't neck dive simply a builders flaw?
- Thread starter JAUQO III-X
- Start date
Well...Really a design flaw at first. Sometimes the builder will adjust the design to fix the neck dive but sometimes not.
It is a design flaw. Ergonomics should be one of the key factors when designing any musical instrument. If it's not comfortable to play then it may inhibit performance.
Imagine if a piano's keys were half the width they normally are just because the builder wanted to save on materials. The same sounds could still be produced, but the musician would be at a great disadvantage due to the poor ergonomics of the piano.
Imagine if a piano's keys were half the width they normally are just because the builder wanted to save on materials. The same sounds could still be produced, but the musician would be at a great disadvantage due to the poor ergonomics of the piano.
IME, it happens to a lot of basses... T-Birds, for example. It all depends on where the weight is, the shape of the body, and placement of your straplocks. Neck dive on a t-bird is easily corrected by moving the straplock on the upper part back behind the neck.
scotch
It's not rocket science!
- Nov 12, 2006
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Maybe. I've just never been inconvenienced by it. I'm usually seated in the studio & my left hand is always supporting the neck when standing. I don't generally do any 'stage stunts' or over-the-neck tapping, so it's never been an issue for me. Even if my left hand totally released the neck, my right arm is resting on the body, thus preventing any diving.
I can see how some people would require the balance, however.
I can see how some people would require the balance, however.
Neck dive can cause injuries. Maybe neck dive will become extinct if enough players could prove in court how the pressure that's placed on their wrist destroyed their ability to play.
or maybe we can get gibson to reduce the prices of t-birds just because of the neck dive... here's hoping
scotch
It's not rocket science!
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Really? I suppose it's possible,... but really? Maybe I've never played a bass with such drastic neck dive.
Hi JAUQO,
The term I use is Design Flaw. In my former life I was an engineer so I tend to see these things through that lens. Designing an instrument so that it balances well is pretty easy and if a problem reveals itself at the prototype stage, it is quite easy to correct. The ideal balance is in the eye of the beholder but I don't know of people who are looking to buy a bass because it neck dives.
Now some may be willing to trade balance for styling but I am not one of those players. I have had traumatic injury to my left wrist and arm and have to live with the after effects. Also with the use of some creative design features and possibly some modern materials, many body styles that traditionally do not balance well can be improved greatly.
For me proper balance is a must. On a cheap instrument I am willing to live with a huge bolt sticking out of the upper horn if that is what it takes. On an instrument that is more expensive than bargain basement, I expect proper balance to be designed in.
There are many instruments with interesting designs some retro, some classically graceful and some more modern that in theory should all balance well. If a builder's choice of materials/hardware needs to be tweaked or the design changed in some subtle way to make the finished package balance well, the the builder owes it to themselves and the player to set those things right.
Just the way I see it.
Peace,
S
The term I use is Design Flaw. In my former life I was an engineer so I tend to see these things through that lens. Designing an instrument so that it balances well is pretty easy and if a problem reveals itself at the prototype stage, it is quite easy to correct. The ideal balance is in the eye of the beholder but I don't know of people who are looking to buy a bass because it neck dives.
Now some may be willing to trade balance for styling but I am not one of those players. I have had traumatic injury to my left wrist and arm and have to live with the after effects. Also with the use of some creative design features and possibly some modern materials, many body styles that traditionally do not balance well can be improved greatly.
For me proper balance is a must. On a cheap instrument I am willing to live with a huge bolt sticking out of the upper horn if that is what it takes. On an instrument that is more expensive than bargain basement, I expect proper balance to be designed in.
There are many instruments with interesting designs some retro, some classically graceful and some more modern that in theory should all balance well. If a builder's choice of materials/hardware needs to be tweaked or the design changed in some subtle way to make the finished package balance well, the the builder owes it to themselves and the player to set those things right.
Just the way I see it.
Peace,
S
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
In my experience, neck dive is usually present when aesthetics, cost, or material selection are given priority over sound design principles.
A qualified builder should understand the issues related to neck dive, weight, balance, tone, and a host of other interrelated variables. The best builders want every bass to be a success on their terms as well as the customer's, and they'll shepherd the customer through the design process to assure the bass that's built satisfies them both.
When mass-market instrument makers measure success using a price point instead of a quality level, problems are likely, among which, neck dive is one manifestation. If there's sufficient customer demand, many builders will churn out whatever pays the bills if the price is right.
Some bass builders are successful because they build "cool looking" instruments that might not receive favorable peer review from professional luthiers. Crap that sells. I don't understand why anyone would buy bass if neck dive (or other conspicuous problems) were present.
Is the manufacturer at fault if customers are foolish enough to pay for bad basses?
A qualified builder should understand the issues related to neck dive, weight, balance, tone, and a host of other interrelated variables. The best builders want every bass to be a success on their terms as well as the customer's, and they'll shepherd the customer through the design process to assure the bass that's built satisfies them both.
When mass-market instrument makers measure success using a price point instead of a quality level, problems are likely, among which, neck dive is one manifestation. If there's sufficient customer demand, many builders will churn out whatever pays the bills if the price is right.
Some bass builders are successful because they build "cool looking" instruments that might not receive favorable peer review from professional luthiers. Crap that sells. I don't understand why anyone would buy bass if neck dive (or other conspicuous problems) were present.
Is the manufacturer at fault if customers are foolish enough to pay for bad basses?
The force you are exerting with your right arm will create tension in your shoulders and across your back. It can effect your ability to use both of your hands and arms to best advantage while playing and also can contribute to fatigue.
Peace,
S
I'd go as far to blame consumers for buying basses with neck dive. If they didn't buy them, manufacturers wouldn't build them.
In most cases, yes. It's a flaw. My MIM P bass doesn't neckdive at all, but my Jazz band's MIA P bass neck dives like a beesche. (Not to mention it sounds awful...and plays awful, and is awful. I guess it must have been the dreaded "Fender Flop")
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Then check out a Warwick Thumb. Neck dive city.
