Isn't neck dive simply a builders flaw?

[Thunderthumbs73]

Isn't neck dive simply just a builders flaw no matter how much the bass cost?

I'd say yes.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Then check out a Warwick Thumb. Neck dive city.

Would you call that a flaw?

 

[Ric5]

Neck dive is a design flaw.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Then check out a Warwick Thumb. Neck dive city.

Agreed. A number of Warwicks I've played do this. It is able to mitigated somewhat with grippier straps, but that doesn't fix the basic design problem/flaw. It's a shame really, because the ones that neck dived were otherwise fine instruments worthy of consideration if I had the money. Because of the neck dive, it makes them a no go for me.

 

[ehque]

In the case of production instruments, the variation between wood densities can make one bass balance well, and another bass of the exactly same design using the same species of wood balance poorly. Wood isn't as uniform in densities as we like it. Thus, neck-diving P basses and the like are the exceptions, and not a design flaw.

If the design will simply not balance regardless of the wood it's built out off, then it's a design flaw. Basses like the T-bird simply will not balance well if built out of the woods specced.

In the case of custom instruments, it could be purchaser error if too light body woods are ordered, or if the neck is ordered too heavy.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

While I've complained about Warwick, I really like the Corvette Fretless. Nice simple, basic, minimalist kind of bass design with great sound and sustain. I can't remember that one as a neck-diver, but I could be wrong.

 

[scotch]

The force you are exerting with your right arm will create tension in your shoulders and across your back. It can effect your ability to use both of your hands and arms to best advantage while playing and also can contribute to fatigue.

Peace,
S

I get that.

Not to be argumentative (that's not my intention at all), but it seems with the 1 instrument that I have that exhibits "neck dive" - an Ibanez Artcore hollowbody - that just the weight of my right arm alone is sufficient. I've played 1 1/2 hour sets with it w/ no ill-effects.

I suppose, if I were playing 6 hours straight, that a perfectly balanced instrument would be advantageous. Honestly, however, I've been playing professionally full-time for over 13 years & have never actually 'played' that long! Even in marathon all-day studio sessions, you're still not likely to have an instrument in-hand for more than an hour.

Still, disregarding my own experiences, I totally understand folks demanding a balanced instrument. The good news is that most offerings on the commercial market balance quite well! And I do agree that there's little reason that a manufacturer couldn't easily build decent balance into an instrument in the design/prototype stage.

I've yet to meet a colleague who has become debilitated by neck-dive, but I welcome the online anecdotes!

 

[Fuzzbass]

Isn't neck dive simply just a builders flaw no matter how much the bass cost?

I don't like neck dive, but I wouldn't call it a "flaw". Fact is, some players like certain bass designs (Thunderbird, Thumb) enough to deal with the neck dive. Other players don't really care about neck dive.

 

[ehque]

Not to be argumentative (that's not my intention at all), but it seems with the 1 instrument that I have that exhibits "neck dive" - an Ibanez Artcore hollowbody - that just the weight of my right arm alone is sufficient.

It may work for you, but the pressure of the bass on the right wrist can pinch ligaments which control your fingers, leading to internal inflammation and repetitive strain injury.

I've not encountered this personally, but i'm not about to try a neck-diving bass when there are so many good looking, good sounding basses out there without neck dive.

 

[Staccato]

TB'rs have a standard definition for neck dive?

Neck dive while standing with a strap attached? Because, if you're talking about sitting with a Fender Jazz,
it WILL neck dive if held several different ways in your lap-without a strap.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

I don't like neck dive, but I wouldn't call it a "flaw". Fact is, some players like certain bass designs (Thunderbird, Thumb) enough to deal with the neck dive. Other players don't really care about neck dive.

A well designed/made bass should balance perfectly.


Why even play a bass that has neck dive issues?

 

[TheSuzie]

In the case of production instruments, the variation between wood densities can make one bass balance well, and another bass of the exactly same design using the same species of wood balance poorly. Wood isn't as uniform in densities as we like it. Thus, neck-diving P basses and the like are the exceptions, and not a design flaw.

Worst case design should take these variations into consideration. The design should be changed to balance with the range of wood densities that will be seen in production and/or the wood should be specified to be within a range that will balance properly for the particular design. This sort of stuff is engineering 101.

Peace,
S

 

[Rockingbird]

It's a flaw with a very simple solution. Just loop the strap through your belt. Works sitting and standing. My MK Club Custom neckdives like a *^$(^#^% normally, but stays put looped through the belt. Maybe a bit farther forward, but it stays airborne at least.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

The thing is, I know for any bass produced, there was a demo and prototype version of it. Why the neck dive was ignored at these early stages is beyond me.

 

[bassman275]

Neck dive IMHO is a selection flaw.Some woods are heavier or lighter than others.By the time even a custom builder gets to this area......it's to late.Design wise a fender type of instrument at best has a bit of a heavy neck feel.So yes.IMO,My custom basses dont,IE,Elrick,Martin Keith,Alembic,Bossa,Smith,etc...Dont....so...Yes it's a design flaw.IMHO...You get what you pay for.....

 

[JAUQO III-X]

It's a flaw with a very simple solution. Just loop the strap through your belt. Works sitting and standing. My MK Club Custom neckdives like a *^$(^#^% normally, but stays put looped through the belt. Maybe a bit farther forward, but it stays airborne at least.

You shouldn't have to result to such measures.

 

[PostApocalypso]

A well designed/made bass should balance perfectly.

I wasn't sure whether I should write "agreed" or "correct". "Correct" seems patronizing while "agreed" is a statement of opinion. So I agree with this statement as it is 100% correct.

Why even play a bass that has neck dive issues?

Looks. Or mistaken beliefs about material qualities or "tone".

There is also a pretty big gap between perfect balance and "neck dive issues"...

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

A well designed/made bass should balance perfectly.


Why even play a bass that has neck dive issues?

Some players prefer a bass that naturally hangs closer to horizontal. Some here have said that the Thumb was designed like this purposefully- for the guys like Mark King who play in an almost horizontal position. I myself can't stand neck dive, and there have been people who've said their basses have no neck dive that I considered to have noticeable neck dive.

 

[ehque]

Worst case design should take these variations into consideration. The design should be changed to balance with the range of wood densities that will be seen in production and/or the wood should be specified to be within a range that will balance properly for the particular design. This sort of stuff is engineering 101.

I agree, but designing for worst case (very light specimen of body wood, very heavy specimen of neck wood) might cause, i would assume, bodies to be designed oversize to compensate. I present the Jazz bass. Generally balances well, but mainly because the body is made out of 2 trees glued together.

 

[D.A.R.K.]

Then check out a Warwick Thumb. Neck dive city.

i dont have the issue with my thumb basses.