Isobaric Cabs - will they be loud enough?

[Basstardus]

I have the Orange TB500H and one SP212 cab, and second SP212 cab incoming, with just one it's loud enough for every type of rehearsals, and smaller events, but for a bigger event, I NEED the second cab, next month I'll be satisfied

 

[fivespoke]

Well it seems I opened a can of worms there. I've pulled the trigger on a rig I was watching on eBay with 2 sp212s and a TB500H.

As always, the proof of the pudding is in the eating so I'll give the rig a run with the band in rehearsals and see how it goes. I'll report back here!

 

[rhopper]

How do you know which cabs people have played through?

Not everyone has access to every cab. Understanding of specs and designs let people gauge and compare products. You may have never have driven a Bugatti, but you can look at specs and understand that it has a faster top speed than a Mustang.

Or maybe you have to drive every car on the market to truly understand whats available.

My point is that judging a cab based on specs and design alone without actually playing it is not the best way to go.

Car performance specs and amp specs is a terrible analogy... not even close. Specs for an amp don't tell about tone or perceived loudness and how it fits an individual style.

I agree that not everyone can play all amp cabs to local availability. Worst case scenario is an amp cab can be sent back if does not work out.

 

[tombowlus]

I'm in the market for a new rig, with a mind to portability and have been looking at the Orange 2x12 isobaric cabinets.

Does anyone have any experience playing through these? I'm looking at 2 cabs with a terror bass 500w head to replace my ageing (and heavy) 300w Trace Elliot 2x10 combo, which i run with a 15" extension cab.

I'm slightly worried that being a fairly small rig, it won't be loud enough to compete with a loud drummer and a Boogie-using guitarist. Any thoughts?

We Link Removed, and I spent a little time discussing the nature of isobaric cabs in the technical review. While there are certainly many reasons not to build and isbobaric design, they do have some unique benefits (namely, going deeper in a smaller box and power handling). Either way, the Terror Bass 500 is a very loud amp, and it'll push those cabs very well. Just remember that they are as loud, overall, as a 1x12, not a typical 2x12).

 

[CL400Peavey]

My point is that judging a cab based on specs and design alone without actually playing it is not the best way to go.

Car performance specs and amp specs is a terrible analogy... not even close. Specs for an amp don't tell about tone or perceived loudness and how it fits an individual style.

I agree that not everyone can play all amp cabs to local availability. Worst case scenario is an amp cab can be sent back if does not work out.

If I was debating tone you would be right. The ISO cabs sound great, Mi question on that. Max spl is something that can be derived with adequate specs.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

My point is that judging a cab based on specs and design alone without actually playing it is not the best way to go.

Car performance specs and amp specs is a terrible analogy... not even close. Specs for an amp don't tell about tone or perceived loudness and how it fits an individual style.

I agree that not everyone can play all amp cabs to local availability. Worst case scenario is an amp cab can be sent back if does not work out.

The get you pretty close if you have all the specs, and understand them. Manufacturer's pretty much never give you all the specs though.

 

[countrybass007]

AMJBASS-I'm not sure in what situation you tried an isobaric in, but mine produces enough low end to rattle windows

 

[Brad Johnson]

Just to throw a monkey wrench in this thread, what about that 2x12 by Glasstone that gets raved about once in a while? That's the size of a 1x12, and purportedly goes much louder and full range-er than it has any right to. 2nd driver is hidden, but no mention of isobaric. What's _it's_ parlor trick??

The Glasstone Lil G has two drivers that share the same single chamber so I would guess it wouldn't be considered isobaric by my understanding nor has anyone involved described it as such. Anyone thinking it should perform in a similar fashion is mistaken.

One fires forward, the other is mounted at a 90 degree angle and fires into the bottom port. Look into the top of the port and you'll see the driver. No parlor tricks involved... just imagination.


The cab is so small because it was designed for the Faital Pro neo drivers with their relatively tiny magnet structures... ceramic magnet drivers wouldn't fit. It took a lot of experimentation to come up with the end result... I came in on the tail end of the process.

It does go much lower and is more full range than I've been told here on TB it should be able to. In the meantime, I'm approaching about 40 or so gigs with mine and it's been nothing short of amazing for everyone involved. I still have a hard time believing what it does.

And I have no commercial interest in the company, the builder is a good friend. He has jokingly called me his "R&D Department" because along with a couple of other friends we've provided feedback from actual gigging that went into refining the design. I don't earn money or get gear from him as any sort of compensation. He enjoys what he does and so do I.

I've been gigging since the 70's, used everything from Kustom 3-15 cabs to triamp rigs and this is the best live sound I've ever had. Period. I'm currently running it mainly with a little Kustom KXB500 class D amp, a steal at it's regular price. No commercial interest there either. Just letting some folks know what's been killing for me. Anyone not interested, please ignore me. These two pieces have made for a flat out amazing live sound setup that together comes in at well under 40 lb. and a bargain for the price IMO IME.

I'm not using it for the size, I'm using it for the sound. The dispersion is great... I can stand ridiculously close to the cab and it still sounds great to me and out in the room. How/why does it do this? Beats the heck out of me... I just bought it, I didn't build it.

I've had absolutely no problem gigging with my two cabs setups (Nahas, Bag End, older Euphonic Audio VL110's, still love all of them), this is just icing on the cake to always have my "big rig" in a single cab. It's all I use live except for church where they have a large cab I use my heads with.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

Similar deal to the Schroeder cabs with one sideways driver then? One acoustically bandpassed, so you get the lows from two but the superior midrange dispersion of a single driver.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The get you pretty close if you have all the specs, and understand them. Manufacturer's pretty much never give you all the specs though.

Which should let people know what they can assume from them... but strangely enough they don't seem to get that.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Similar deal to the Schroeder cabs with one sideways driver then? One acoustically bandpassed, so you get the lows from two but the superior midrange dispersion of a single driver.

My guess is the drivers, the closer proximity of the drivers and the smaller port tie into the differences between what I've experienced with Schroeder cabs and this cab. I like the mids alot more with my cab, not that the Schroeders were deficient. The mids seem more forward to my ear. I also prefer the highs and lows on mine.

Are Schroeders considered isobaric? If so I guess the Lil G is too, in the magnet to magnet vein. But they're not really magnet mirrored to magnet, the magnets are perpendicular.

 

[millsbass5]

Isobaric means you pay for and carry a second speaker that is doing the work that the back of the other speaker would do otherwise.

Well............... As with any other debatable subject, I guess it depends on who one would ask.

I would ask an audio expert. You know your Fitzmaurices' (expert or not, I think he'd know), etc., etc.

 

[1958Bassman]

There are thousands of car stereos that can be heard from a long distance with isobaric boxes of various types- some are iso-bandpass. These will pound the brains of the people in the car very well and it's a great way to not use up the whole trunk of a car, or the storage area of a hatchback. There's no reason a well-designed iso box can't work for bass, but the total SPL needed does matter.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

I'm surprised that no one has talked about the inherent problems with the mids with isobarics. When I made them I had to cross them over pretty low. The mids were much worse than the single speaker.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

Are Schroeders considered isobaric? If so I guess the Lil G is too, in the magnet to magnet vein. But they're not really magnet mirrored to magnet, the magnets are perpendicular.

They aren't isobaric, its a hybrid bandpass box, one speaker is direct radiating, on is in a bandpass chamber, a pretty simple one, I guess there is a port too.

Well............... As with any other debatable subject, I guess it depends on who one would ask.

I would ask an audio expert. You know your Fitzmaurices' (expert or not, I think he'd know), etc., etc.

We covered this with BFM in a previous Orange SP thread. It isn't really debatable in terms of science, because that is the function of an isbaric alignment, the pressure between the cones is constant, hence the 'isobaric' part. The advantage it you have two motors driving what is effectively one cone, thus the two cones perform like the front and back of a single cone. The things not being so perfect in real life is:

I'm surprised that no one has talked about the inherent problems with the mids with isobarics. When I made them I had to cross them over pretty low. The mids were much worse than the single speaker.

Main thing you can't see from spec is the mess in the midrange/highs you get from the distance between the two cones.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

Duke said the only way he could get them to work is by doing a lot of filtering on the inner driver---essentially getting the mids outta there!

 

[1958Bassman]

I'm surprised that no one has talked about the inherent problems with the mids with isobarics. When I made them I had to cross them over pretty low. The mids were much worse than the single speaker.

Isobaric is usually used for low end, not mid-bass and mid-range, as you have pointed out. In addition to 10s or 12s, it should make for a smaller rig that still handles the low end without being a burden.

BTW- the distortion issue is covered in that Wiki link I posted.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

Is there a mid driver in the Orange? Or is it just woof to tweet?

 

[tombowlus]

Is there a mid driver in the Orange? Or is it just woof to tweet?

Two identical woofers (in the SP210 and SP212), isobarically loaded, of course, and no tweeter.

 

[Brad Johnson]

They aren't isobaric, its a hybrid bandpass box, one speaker is direct radiating, on is in a bandpass chamber, a pretty simple one, I guess there is a port too.

I didn't think they were, just asking, for clarity's sake.