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It looks like poor Carol Kaye doesn't understand the internet

#461
Meddle said:
I have a small suspicion that if Carol was male she would be getting a much better treatment on this forum. 'How dare a female ever be compared to Jamerson' seems to be the order of a few posters in here.
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I have not read all the posts in this particular thread...that said, I hope you're off-base here. You are aware of the controversy, correct?
Anyway, I have no interest in bringing it up, it's been done-to-death here & elesewhere...FWIW, it's not about "comparing a female (your choice of words)to Jamerson", IMO.


She must have been good to have been let anywhere near a recording studio as a blonde, young female in the '60s in a capacity other than 'you know where the kettle is?'. Hell, I doubt the story is much different now.
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She is an icon...terrific reader, played her parts flawlessly, did the job. I imagine there was nothing but support for her back then, etc.
 
#462
She is an icon...terrific reader, played her parts flawlessly, did the job. I imagine there was nothing but support for her back then, etc.[/QUOTE]

Having taken a few lessons from her in the mid nineties I can say she really knows her stuff. Her recordings were what she did to earn a living but her heart is into jazz. She's was and continues to be an awesome player..
 
#465
Roy Vogt said:
Just like Jaco-a lot of people don't get Carol because they weren't born yet when all this was going down....
A lot of the Motown lines were written out as well. James read a lot of lines, and he also interpreted a lot of them. A lot of the Beach Boys and Phil Spector stuff that Carol did wasn't written out. They weren't making history, they were just trying to make a living.
A lot of Pro Players who came into their own in the 70s wouldn't be playing without her bass methods, myself included. For that alone she'd be noteworthy. Carol has always been good at marketing and promoting herself which is no sin. James Jamerson was being brilliant in the moment of being a Studio Bassist, but because he was not a self-promoter very few knew about him until he was gone.
I hold Carol, James, Joe Osborne, Larry Knechtel, Bob Moore, Tommy Cogbill, Jerry Jemmott and Bob Babbitt in high reverence and regard. They opened the door the rest of us got to walk through.
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Agree. I still have the first Bass Instruction book I bought and you guessed it, by Carol Kaye.

Also a lot of people don't realize that she was a jazz guitarist and switched to bass. Still plays a mean guitar.
 
#469
4001 said:
As I listened to that I thought to myself that there probably isn't even a couple of people that could write music like that anymore. Where did all of that talent go?
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Except for Bruno Mars and Prince, I thought the same thing watching the Billboard Awards. A "song" these days consists of one phrase repeated over an dover to programmed backing tracks. At least Bruno can groove and Prince still knows how to close a show - IMHO anyway.
 
#472
The only way all of this will end ( not just music, movies and video games, softwares ... etc ) is a big crash and start anew with the only way to promote music will be by sheetmusic, you can only see movies at the theater etc ...

Also music thief have a very wierd way of thinking ... since they didn't want it in the first place and there is still the original ... then whatever the creator doesn't loose ... well the answer is yes the creator loose money !!!

But now this mentality is very well implemented ... the only way is a purge
 
#473
4001 said:
As I listened to that I thought to myself that there probably isn't even a couple of people that could write music like that anymore. Where did all of that talent go?
Movie and TV scores nowdays absolutly blow compared to those times.
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Me & a drummer-friend of mine once discussed something along these lines-
Those guys (Mancini, Schifrin, Bacharach, et al) are real composers/arrangers.
:)
 
#475
jeffbonny said:
That's ok, she still doesn't know who you are.
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I can't even call myself a bassist being close to all great players in this forum, so it is fine to that she or anyone else doesn't know me. That's not even the point.

JimmyM said:
Listen, Carol is no day at the beach, but she's far from senile and she'll kick your ass on the bass any day of the week. I find comments like this to come from a really angry place. She did more for bass in a typical year during the 60's than most of us will do in our whole lives. Including you and me.
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Let me be clear Jimmy. I know that she's a great musician and I'm aware that she'll kick anyone's ass here regarding bass playing and musical acomplishment.

But what I can't stand hearing (or reading) anymore are things like this 'suing the internet' or those 'I can't prove but I played this or that bassline', I mean she is a great player, the world knows what she did for music so why does she comes with those controversies? Just to be in the news? I can't see how would she profit from claiming things that she can't prove or that kinda don't make sense...

Short story: YES, I admire her as a bass player. But I don't agree with many things that she says. I know, I know, who am I to judge her? Nobody, indeed, but at least I can have my own opinions.
 
#476
Well put giacomini, I feel the same way.

The way I see it, Carol Kaye was (and is) such a hugely successful and famous studio musician that she shouldn't need to tastelessly challenge Jamerson's credits, especially as he is not around to defend himself. She has needlessly polarized and alienated people, like some of us here, who are put off her, her story and maybe even her music. I won't be going out of my way to learn any of her basslines anytime soon. Ad Iventure a SITSOM type book with (world's top bass players contributing tracks) will never be made of her career. She just wasn't that influential as a musician.

What I find telling is I've yet to meet a bass player who said they wanted to be a bass player after hearing one of her basslines. But many passionate fans of Jamerson's music - the appreciation is evident and grows daily. Young guys discover his playing and study it. What a precious gift he shared with us.
 
#477
kiat said:
Well put giacomini, I feel the same way.

The way I see it, Carol Kaye was (and is) such a hugely successful and famous studio musician that she shouldn't need to tastelessly challenge Jamerson's credits, especially as he is not around to defend himself. She has needlessly polarized and alienated people, like some of us here, who are put off her, her story and maybe even her music. I won't be going out of my way to learn any of her basslines anytime soon. Ad Iventure a SITSOM type book with (world's top bass players contributing tracks) will never be made of her career. She just wasn't that influential as a musician.

What I find telling is I've yet to meet a bass player who said they wanted to be a bass player after hearing one of her basslines. But many passionate fans of Jamerson's music - the appreciation is evident and grows daily. Young guys discover his playing and study it. What a precious gift he shared with us.
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I can say that she was one of a small host of bass players that made me want to play bass in the late 60's/early 70's after hearing many of her bass lines, and not having a clue who was playing...
All those TV themes definitely got in me wanting to groove...splash on a little Wilton Felder, Larry Graham and later, Sting's fretless (who also learned from CK) and there ya go..
Late teens, I got into rock.
It was only much later as an adult and the availability of the internet did I really get interested in people like Jaco and Jamerson...but by then, they were more of a continued study type influence, along with Mingus, etc...
But without CK's early grooves, I can't say for sure what I would have done.
 
#478
I started hanging around Talkbass in 2000 and before that was a regular on usenet going back to when Carol herself was hanging out at alt.guitar.bass. If there's one thing that's been consistent throughout the countless Carol Kaye threads I've seen over the last sixteen or seventeen years is that the folks trash talking Carol are getting incomplete information second or third or fourth hand via the internet then acting like they really have a clue. NEWSFLASH: You don't. It's damned hard to find many people who've had any kind of personal relationship with Carol and a reasonable understanding of the west coast studio scene of the 50's, 60's and 70's using words like "senile" or "pathetic" to describe her.

Not by a longshot do I agree with everything Carol has done or said but I have enough knowledge of her from personal correspondence and an understanding of the time and place she grew out of not to judge her too harshly. Honestly some you people are no better than these clowns. I'm actually kind of embarrassed for you.
 
#480
DreadRaver said:
I started reading the comments in the article on TorrentFreak, and it got pretty entertaining, so I thought I'd share...

The conversation below comes from one user, "anon" in comments section of the article, and I included the full text of the emails that "anon" linked.



People are trying to explain, but CK isn't having ANY OF IT!!!
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I most certainly agree with anon, but he was kind of asking for it with the whole "your comments were quite funny and you will become a laughing stock". That probably set him up for this mess.
 

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