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It looks like poor Carol Kaye doesn't understand the internet

#41
YL_Bass said:
Thats the point. They aren't the ones offering it. If I have a website with 4,523,688 torrents, I have no idea which ones are copyrighted material. If a DMCA is sent a site will take down the torrents but they are not a police force. Like I said you can not be at fault for the abuse of a product. They are not the ones offering copyrighted material, anyone could be.

And that brings the point, YOU CAN'T STOP piracy. One site has over four million torrents, one site. It is impossible. If you read the article on Wiki. 50% of internet traffic is torrenting.

50%

That and it's only really truly illegal in some countries.

You can argue ethics yes, but that does not change anything. The truth is the new buisness model that is emerging is beginning to look much better for artists where overall profits are up in the last few years for individual artists. Individual artists who feel the squeeze may not be even feeling it from piracy but simply lack of interest from their audience.

The articles you listed, such as Garrisons, I would argue that he is hardly affected by piracy. I doubt you could easily find a living Matthew Garrison torrent. If anything digital distribution has allowed people like Garrison to reach a much broader audience. Because I know for a fact that unless I drive downtown to a more niche record dealer I'm not going to find the new Garrison album, but I'm going to find it on iTunes and purchasing is a couple clicks away.
Click to expand...
Well I'm not so sure I believe that 50% of the internet's bandwidth is torrenting. But everything else you say I agree with. The torrents are not created by the site maintainers. And your third paragraph is something I've always agreed with, except for other reasons. I can't believe that she loses close to 1% on anything pirated, because who are the people interested in her products? I'd bet the vast majority of them don't even know about torrents and if they do it is in some vague sense and they couldn't use it. I just really think she's picking a pointless battle.
 
#43
baalroo said:
I have absolutely no doubt that something close to 50% of Internet traffic is torrents, anyone who doesn't is WAY out of touch with Internet culture.
Click to expand...
Or just realizes how much data actually comprises the internet. I just checked out the wiki, it says 27-55%, that is a MASSIVE range, and an ESTIMATE. All I know is htis:
 
#47
For myself, I have found Ms. Kaye's learning materials (that I have purchased directly from her) most useful and the service provided by her in delivery to be excellent.

However, I know from personal experience that helping her out with online 'pirates' is somewhat of a one-way street as far as she's concerned...But I hope that after consultation with people more knowledgeable than herself, her efforts in this matter will become better directed.
 
#49
I never really know what to make of Carol. She says she played on The Doors debut album. True that a bass player doubled Ray Manzarek's piano bass on half the songs on that album,but they say it was Larry Knectel (sp) that played on it...not Carol. What gives her less credibility in that instance is she insists that none of the Doors played at all on that album and that it was 100% session musicians... I mean come on.....really? lol
 
#53
baalroo said:
well, based on her own assessment that makes complete sense. I could easily use google to find unauthorized DLs of her work, just like I could with the site mentioned in the OP. Basically the exact same scenario actually.
Click to expand...

You can use Google to find copyrighted pictures, too, but I don't know if the copyright holder can hold Google responsible for providing a link to the picture. I know Youtube routinely pulls videos because of copyright issues. But for Google to police every possible link for copyright violations is probably impossible, especially since they use spiders to search for links. Looks like the TB legal eagles will have to chime in here.
 
#54
There is a huge difference between 'hosting' copyrighted material and having copyrighted material being searchable.

The complaint is stupid because you might as well file a complaint against internet explorer for allowing you to type in the web address of a site that has copyrighted material on it.

It just seems like she's become a little quick on the draw on legal matters without actually consulting anyone with knowledge on the subject.
 
#55
Rockman said:
She thinks that she can shut down torrenting when massive corporations that are worth thousands if not not millions of times more than any money shes ever seen are unable to shut it down? Must be nice to be old.
Click to expand...

No, actually it's not nice to be old. Ms. Kaye comes from an era where there was no internet, computers, e-mail, torrent (whatever the hell that is), or cell phones. She came from a time when being a woman was just as hard as being old, and she overcame the disrespect and discrimination of being a woman in a mans profession to become one of the most respected musicians in America. No, it's not nice to be old, but it must be nice to be Carol Kaye.
 
#56
I started reading the comments in the article on TorrentFreak, and it got pretty entertaining, so I thought I'd share...

The conversation below comes from one user, "anon" in comments section of the article, and I included the full text of the emails that "anon" linked.

ANON:

Mrs. Kaye,

I am simply a bystander to this piracy nonsense, and thought I could
clear some things up for you.

TorrentFreak/FreakBits is simply a news blog that informs on
BitTorrent news, and in no way hosts copyrighted material or runs a BT
tracker. Please do a little research on the matter.

Any site that hosts torrents of your copy righted work is most likely
doing so completely legally, for the follow reasons:
The torrents themselves contain no copy righted material. All the
torrent files are are basically files that direct you to the people
that stole your work. With a kind email the owners of the offending
trackers may take the torrents down as an act of courtesy. People take
your copy righted material, make the torrent file, then just upload it
to the torrent site, but all of your copyrighted works stay on the
user's computers.

I have to say, your emails to TorrentFreak are quite funny. I suggest
you do research before making blind accusations again... you will
become the laughing stock of the BT community.

And on second thought, if you would like to go after the user(s) that
uploaded your works and the ones that downloaded and seeded them, good
luck. There is a %99.999999 chance that you will not be able to make
them face any punishment for their actions.

--------------------------------------
CAROL:

THEY ARE STEALING, MY ATTORNEY PLUS THE FTC IS ON THEM! GROW UP!! Can't stand the heat eh?!

--------------------------------------
ANON:

Mrs. Kaye,

Please don't tell me to grow up. I am a 15 year old highschool
student. I wrote you a well organized and informative email. You
responded with a childish and immature email. You need to grow up.

That is okay if your attorney is "on to them." I am simply informing
you that you are not only accusing and going after the wrong people,
but you are humiliating yourself.

If you would like to talk in a civilized and adult manor, please
respond. If not, I can't make you be an adult, but I can sit back and
watch the torrent community laugh at you.
--------------------------------------
CAROL:

Grow up.
--------------------------------------
CAROL (again lol):

Stop harassing, that is against the law.
Robert part of Carol Kaye's Team.
-------------------------------------
ANON:

"Please do not download any of my books/CDs from Google. I filed FTC
Complaint #25172648 against Google for those illegal downloads, don't
be a pirate!
Thank-you, CK"​

I would also like to explain to you that Google is not hosting the
material, and is not at fault. Google is an indexer and search engine.
It does not host copy righted material, aside from maybe an occasional
user uploaded TV show to google videos.

Many artists these days are embracing piracy, and it has turned out to
be profitable.

-----------------
New email from ANON to Carol:

Robert/Carol,

From what I have been reading online it seems I am not the only one to email you and be responded to this way. I am not harassing you, and even if I were, there is nothing you can do about it. Let me play this out for you: My IP leads you to a datacenter located somewhere in Kansas due to my ISP’s configuration. You need a policy warrant to get my actual address. You will need to file suit against my parents, seeing as I am a minor, and you also need to file in the place of my primary residence. Lets say you get my address, your lawyer files in my city, what are you going to sue me for? It will cost you much too much in legal and court fees to make this plausible in the first place, let alone because at least several other people have emailed you and received similar responses. So I beg you, do not threaten me with the legality of these emails.

I simply tried to clear things up for you to no avail. If you would listen to me you would probably be better off.

This is my last email,

Rob

--------------------
No response after that in this email.

--------------------

I registered for the (Carol Kaye Website) forum under that name Pirate with interests as piracy. Apparently all new accounts have to be admin approved - I know it's a feature in most everyone board, but I've never seen such a busybody to actual have it set.

--------------------
CAROL:

We need your correct name and city & state names in order to activate your Forum access file. Please reply within 24 hours, we hand-check everyone, Carol Kaye & Team
-----------------------
ANON:

Haha, nice. I just wanted to clear some things up for your fans on the
forums. Looks like I won't.
-----------------------------
CAROL:

My 1,000s of fans know all about this, it's been an issue for weeks, about the enabling of theft of my books and CDs, attorneys are on this as well as the FTC complaint, and BBB complaint.

We dont' want thieves on the Forum, only the top professionals. Good-bye.
-----------------------------
ANON:

Mrs. Kaye,

I am not a thief. I am simply a bystander. I am trying to help you,
please understand that. You have 1000's of fans. TorrentFreak has
400,000 unique daily page views. (by the way, I am in no way
affiliated with TorrentFreak, I am simply a reader and an admirer to
the blog.)
--------------------
Nothing after that.
Click to expand...

People are trying to explain, but CK isn't having ANY OF IT!!!
 
#58
This is sad. I respect Ms. Kaye, and can fully understand her being upset about folks illegally making copies of her copyrighted material, such as her instructional books, etc. I agree though that she (or her lawyers) should have done a bit more research so she would be taking on the people who have actually done this to her copyrighted property, rather than the host sites of one sort or another who really aren't responsible for what's going on. The fact she seems to be attacking the 'bystanders' who are trying to explain to her who she really SHOULD be going after seems to be a real reach on her part. I'm sorry to hear this, as it sure seems to add to the lack of esteem some people feel toward her. Coming across as if she's frothing at the mouth doesn't help her case any... :rolleyes:
 
#60
CK just need to eliminate the middleman, cut to the chase and sue the internet.

It also appears that her attorney is far more interested in generating billable hours than in advising her as to the most effective method of seeking redress.
 

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