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It's not the Bass, it's you

#101
I agree with the OP. Just as a parallel comparison because it shows up in other activities as well. I used to sail competetively. I was not bad, I took 5th place in the national championships in the C-15 class. There was a guy out of California that was in the top 3 of our entire fleet. He came to Dallas once for a regatta, but didn't bring a boat. He borrowed a boat from a guy who had just bought it but wasn't confident enough to compete in a regional event. The boat was plain stock. He kicked butt. My boat was excessively tricked out, but all I got to see was a lot of his transom. Sort of like taking a brand new Fender P out of the shipping box, tuning it, and playing a major venue.
So, yes it is the player. The instrument would have to be falling apart before the player would sound bad.
 
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#102
Regarding solid body basses: With halfway decent QA, it's not that hard to route a body and neck, throw the frets in the right place and make 'em all even. and 1920's electronics is a walk in the park nowadays.

The difference between a Vega and a lamborghini may be huge, but the difference between an SX and the most costly exotic bass, regarding actual sound and playability is not. Sometimes it is non-existent. Unlike objective specs in cars (cornering, acceleration), most arguments made about the quality of more expensive bases is subjective. "Sounds better" really means "sounds different". And all that that implies.

Then there is the tangible reason expensive basses cost more: Exotic woods, unique designs and such. There is a brand of guitar sold here in Louisville that has a large and intricately engraved metal plate covering most of the body. Spectacularly beautiful and sells for five figures. But does it play better than a squire? Heh. ;)
 
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#106
I say yes...and no. Just because someone can play a crappy instrument and make it sound decent doesn't mean it's not still a crappy instrument. The effort you have to apply to play that instrument isn't going to be something you want to deal with on a regular basis. So every musician looks for something that is comfortable for them to play and has basic elements of playability. So, is it the Musician or the instrument? I say it's both.
 
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#107
T-MOST said:
I say yes...and no. Just because someone can play a crappy instrument and make it sound decent doesn't mean it's not still a crappy instrument. The effort you have to apply to play that instrument isn't going to be something you want to deal with on a regular basis. So every musician looks for something that is comfortable for them to play and has basic elements of playability. So, is it the Musician or the instrument? I say it's both.
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Exactly what I was trying to express.

It should be obvious on its face that it is the interaction with the instrument that makes music - my bass sitting at home isn't playing itself, and trying to air-bass here at the office isn't getting me anywhere.

Yes, you can be awesome on a lousy bass. You can be lousy on an awesome bass. If you want to sink time and money in to a lousy bass you can make it punch above its weight class.
 
#108
T-MOST said:
I say yes...and no. Just because someone can play a crappy instrument and make it sound decent doesn't mean it's not still a crappy instrument. The effort you have to apply to play that instrument isn't going to be something you want to deal with on a regular basis. So every musician looks for something that is comfortable for them to play and has basic elements of playability. So, is it the Musician or the instrument? I say it's both.
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A friend bought a beautiful guitar for gigging. After fighting it for months at gigs he sold it for something that was easier to play. i.e. both good and "crappy" guitars and basses can be hard to play. And then there is the concept that someone thought his guitar is really easy to play.

That's the thing. Some instruments are hard to play but reward you for learning their idiosyncrasies, but the bottom line is that for me, crappy means poor ergonomic design, poorly designed pickups, and of course poor workmanship. But other than that, most of the parameters are embarrassingly subjective.
 
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#110
I’d also like to chime in on the “set-up” aspect of this and please forgive me for not including it in my original post.


Set-up makes all the difference in the world……….:thumbsup:


When I first got my ESP I took it home and played it for a few weeks, I was very happy with it but I knew she could do more.


The bass instructor that I’m seeing now asked me if he could play it during one of our sessions and he convinced me to let him set it up for me.


That next week when we had our session, he played the thing and I damn near fell off my chair, seriously!!!!!!:woot:


I asked him his opinion of the bass and he said: “all she needed was a little love & attention, now she’s good” and man he wasn’t lying.


The main point I wanted to make with this thread wasn’t so much about bass players sounding like famous bass players on inexpensive instruments as much as it was: any skilled, seasoned bass player, can make "almost" any bass, regardless of who made it or how much it costs - sound really good.


Good enough to gig with, good enough to practice with, good enough to wow any audience, anywhere, anytime.


And it appears as though many of you agree……………..:bassist:
 
#113
Robroy said:
...Unlike objective specs in cars (cornering, acceleration), most arguments made about the quality of more expensive bases is subjective. "Sounds better" really means "sounds different". And all that that implies.
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Precisely. Saying things like "A Squier will never sound as good as a MIA Fender, period" is meaningless. A person may be seeking a specific sound, or just prefer one sound to the other. Saying one or another sound is "better" is more or less nonsensical. It's like saying "black is a better color than white, but gray is the best!" People like different things. People have different tastes.

Then there is the tangible reason expensive basses cost more: Exotic woods, unique designs and such. There is a brand of guitar sold here in Louisville that has a large and intricately engraved metal plate covering most of the body. Spectacularly beautiful and sells for five figures. But does it play better than a squire? Heh. ;)
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Another aspect to remember is that some basses cost more in part because of increased overhead, more $ sunk into advertising, etc. If you make the same product on three different continents, the quality may be the same, but the cost of manufacture isn't necessarily the same.

You can't convince me that, with certain brands, at least a little of the MSRP is going for the status of having a certain name on the headstock.
 
#114
guitarflinger said:
Totally agree. However . . .
Changing (improving) the 85% is a very slow process. Improving the 15% can be much quicker - I noted instant, though small, improvement with a new bass.
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I used to do a lot of bike riding. I used to say a light bike is important, but it's a lot more expensive to shave two unnecessary lbs off a bike than 20 unnecessary lbs off your body. I ended up shaving 55. Changed everything.
 
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#115
No doubt about it, the individual player and his/her touch/feel is responsible for 99% of the tone, IMHO. Case in point … Ed Friedland (A.K.A. the bass whisperer). I've seen quite a few of his product demos on YouTube and whether he's playing through inexpensive entry level gear or high dollar boutique level gear, he ALWAYS sounds good.
 
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#116
Is there anyone out there who *doesn't* agree that that the player is more important than the gear? Surely even those of us who are heavily GAS-afflicted realize that. Seems like a non-controversy to me.
That said, I like to play a good-quality bass. It doesn't have to be a $3K bass or even a $2K bass. I'm very happy with my MIA Fenders or my Lakland Skyline Duck Dunn. But I've just never been satisfied with MIM Standards and the like, try as I may. I can tell a distinct difference in the way they play and sound. YMMV.
 
#117
Pet Sounds said:
That said, I like to play a good-quality bass. It doesn't have to be a $3K bass or even a $2K bass. I'm very happy with my MIA Fenders or my Lakland Skyline Duck Dunn. But I've just never been satisfied with MIM Standards and the like, try as I may. I can tell a distinct difference in the way they play and sound. YMMV.
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THAT RIGHT THERE is how the bass really matters. When you are inspired by playing a work of art you play better. This is the ONE MAJOR chink in the armor of my argument that a $130 SX is pretty much as good as any $1,000+ bass.
 
#119
Pet Sounds said:
But I've just never been satisfied with MIM Standards and the like, try as I may. I can tell a distinct difference in the way they play and sound. YMMV.
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One thing that I think comes into play here is that a lot of Squier models and, to an extent, many MIMs are based more on "vintage" Fender specs, whereas for many years, the MIA Fenders are designed to be more modernistic.

I'm not saying this is the case in your example, or in the case of anyone else, or that this is the only reason someone might prefer one over the other, but I think it shoukld be considered and people don't typically bring up this point.
 
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#120
Robroy said:
Regarding solid body basses: With halfway decent QA, it's not that hard to route a body and neck, throw the frets in the right place and make 'em all even. and 1920's electronics is a walk in the park nowadays.

The difference between a Vega and a lamborghini may be huge, but the difference between an SX and the most costly exotic bass, regarding actual sound and playability is not. Sometimes it is non-existent. Unlike objective specs in cars (cornering, acceleration), most arguments made about the quality of more expensive bases is subjective. "Sounds better" really means "sounds different". And all that that implies.
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Yes. You make a good point.

Since learning to do my own set-ups and repairs, I've been thinking more and more along these lines. I no longer find electric guitars and basses to be mystical and imbued with voodoo mojo like I once did. They are a product made of dead wood, bits of steel and simple electronics. It's technology that has largely remained unchanged for over 50 years. With improvements in manufacturing and the overall better quality that you can get for your money these days for 'entry level instruments', I agree too that the gap in quality between lower priced and higher priced instruments is closing fast.
 
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