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Its taken a while for the low B, how long for lower?

A low F# will become as popular as the low B is today

  • in less than five years

    Votes: 14 3.8%

  • between five and 10 years

    Votes: 19 5.2%

  • greater than ten years

    Votes: 34 9.3%

  • ain't gonna happen

    Votes: 298 81.6%
  • Total voters
    365
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#82
I Suck At Bass said:
I guess, but thats not really an apples to apples comparision.

Mind my ignorance, what kinda music requires lower than a B, and would it actually be as useful as say, the low e or a string?
Other than metal, perhaps...?
Click to expand...

I've been thinking with the proliferation of home theater systems that soundtracks are providing more and more bass (granted, a lot of it is sound effects). I wouldn't be surprised if movie soundtracks start using lower and lower frequencies in the music to get certain moods established.

Just a thought
 
#83
I Suck At Bass said:
I guess, but thats not really an apples to apples comparision.

Mind my ignorance, what kinda music requires lower than a B, and would it actually be as useful as say, the low e or a string?
Other than metal, perhaps...?
Click to expand...

Experimental.

:hiding:

Lol, I was just joking, I really have no clue of that term, maybe the Jaquo III-X Unit, or Behold...The Arctopus?
:p:D:p

Anyway, why should we think of "what do you need for this music," if you're playing a cover, fine, but if you want to create your own music why not experiment with different notes high ,or low. The Beatles were one of the first to put sound effects in music, new ideas of music always come over time. Make a name for yourself. If you don't want to fine, no one is making you.
 
#85
B.C. said:
Actually, I think it will. Yes subs and boomy ness will still be popular, but sound is doing nothing but increasing in quality, and if one end of the spectrum will become clearer, IMHO, the whole will.
Click to expand...

Unfotunately I don't see anything good happening at the moment in this regard (Speaking of stereo gear, not of bass amps).

Probably the biggest enemy of getting good low bass on recordings, though, is compression. Everyone wants to maximize the average volume of their records, and unfortunately they do it at the expense of the headroom which should be there for the bass.

Of course, people don't like the sound of music with not enough bass. What's happening is that they're compensating by boosting the bass that IS still there. Compensating for low with loud.

Live music tends to be even worse. I've never understood the reasoning for rock concerts being so loud. In most cases they could probably be down 15-20 dB and be plenty loud to drown out the crowd.

Think about how much better the bass could be with that much lighter load on the amps/speakers.

Of the last half dozen concerts I was at, only one band had the bass at a relative level where I could hear it clearly (most you couldn't hear if you tried), and I'm fairly certain it's because their overall volume was lower than all the other bands playing that night.

Anyhow, I'm getting off topic. My point is that when even an E string doesn't seem to be getting through at 40ish Hz how is a F# going to get through at 23?

-Nick

Edit: And to clarify, I'm referring to the original question of whether it will become mainstream, to which this is a significant factor. I've thought about getting some fat strings and trying it, I just don't think it's likely to catch on in a major way.
 
#86
Nick, it all comes down to who's playing such an instrument and how it's recorded.


Before bass players even got the hang of hearing the open Low B string, they had to allow time for their ears to adjust to a frequency so low, whether consciously or sub consciously.
 
#87
Arx said:
Unfotunately I don't see anything good happening at the moment in this regard (Speaking of stereo gear, not of bass amps).

Probably the biggest enemy of getting good low bass on recordings, though, is compression. Everyone wants to maximize the average volume of their records, and unfortunately they do it at the expense of the headroom which should be there for the bass.

Of course, people don't like the sound of music with not enough bass. What's happening is that they're compensating by boosting the bass that IS still there. Compensating for low with loud.

Live music tends to be even worse. I've never understood the reasoning for rock concerts being so loud. In most cases they could probably be down 15-20 dB and be plenty loud to drown out the crowd.

Think about how much better the bass could be with that much lighter load on the amps/speakers.

Of the last half dozen concerts I was at, only one band had the bass at a relative level where I could hear it clearly (most you couldn't hear if you tried), and I'm fairly certain it's because their overall volume was lower than all the other bands playing that night.

Anyhow, I'm getting off topic. My point is that when even an E string doesn't seem to be getting through at 40ish Hz how is a F# going to get through at 23?

-Nick
Click to expand...

Fair enough. With my eye, I can only see things getting louder, and speakers will have to improve in efficiency. Thats just my take on the situation:)
 
#89
The_Orlonater said:
Anyway, why should we think of "what do you need for this music," if you're playing a cover, fine, but if you want to create your own music why not experiment with different notes high ,or low. The Beatles were one of the first to put sound effects in music, new ideas of music always come over time. Make a name for yourself. If you don't want to fine, no one is making you.
Click to expand...

Ok, thats fair enough, but personally i dont think that this is at all sufficient enough to convince manufacturers to start semi-mass-producing basses with strings lower than b; after all, this thread is discussing a more mainstream use of possibly an F# or lower, rather than a "make a name for yourself" use of it.

But hey, Im all up for it. Just don't see it happening anytime soon
 
#90
I Suck At Bass said:
Ok, thats fair enough, but personally i dont think that this is at all sufficient enough to convince manufacturers to start semi-mass-producing basses with strings lower than b; after all, this thread is discussing a more mainstream use of possibly an F# or lower, rather than a "make a name for yourself" use of it.

But hey, Im all up for it. Just don't see it happening anytime soon
Click to expand...

True, but if people start liking it, who knows? :smug:
 
#92
I Suck At Bass said:
I guess, but thats not really an apples to apples comparision.

Mind my ignorance, what kinda music requires lower than a B, and would it actually be as useful as say, the low e or a string?
Other than metal, perhaps...?
Click to expand...

yeah I don't get the 'require' part. As others have said, if you're just playing other people's music then yeah maybe not much of it requires an F# or even a B. But if you're making your own music and what you hear in your head is something around or below 30Hz then it's definitely something you'd want as a bassist to be able to play.
 
#93
JAUQO III-X said:
It's really not about whether a string will become mainstream or not. It will become what ever it becomes for those who find a practical use for it and if one waits for such a string to become mainstream before they accept it, that would tell me a lot about the state of people who call them selves musicians.
Click to expand...

Musician = someone who makes a living entertaining people with music, in my book.

Why does it have to be "original," "creative," off the beaten path, over-indulgent egocentric BS to be respected? lol

How many actors write their own scripts? Do we think of classical bassists as "wannabes" because they still play 4-string basses and play 300-year-old music?

I'm just a bass player. There was a lot of great music written before I was ever born and I respect that. I don't have delusions of grandeur. I just play my bass and make people happy and that's good enough for me. YMMV and there's nothing wrong with that at all... but let's cut the diva act, eh?

(Not directed at you, Jauqo, just in general!)

Best,
 
#94
sethlow3 said:
For real man... +1

If I had the money I'd have a 6 and show how the high C can be used for tapping and singing. The high C opens up new positions, higher melodic grooves, and tapping in droves. I have heard more people dis the high C over the low B or F#, but they usually don't play bass!
Click to expand...

You forgot some pretty cool harmonics, too. ;)

I Suck At Bass said:
I guess, but thats not really an apples to apples comparision.

Mind my ignorance, what kinda music requires lower than a B, and would it actually be as useful as say, the low e or a string?
Other than metal, perhaps...?
Click to expand...

Require? I'm not sure if I know anything off the top of my head that absolutely requires it, but some of the contra register can sound really interesting. Jaquo has some stuff on his myspace page that sound cool. Yves Carbone has some really cool stuff, too.

IMHO, asking why all the time restricts your creativity. The "why not" mentality pushes away limits and barriers. If we ask what's the point of a low f#, we might as well be asking what's the point of playing a fretless.
 
#96
spade2you said:
If you use that definition, then Fieldy is a musician. :p:ninja:
Click to expand...

Dang, that was a low blow dude, he is as much a musician as you or me, just cuz he is too popular for you doesn't mean he's not a musician. I know most of his basslines sound like jibberish, but some of them really make the head bounce, the guy can groove with the best of them in my book. In fact, isn't that what this thread is about? Imagine how unlistenable some of his lines would be if he had a low F# string on his fiver? Maybe people like fieldy will be banned from having them (lol!):p
 
#97
JAUQO III-X said:
Nick, it all comes down to who's playing such an instrument and how it's recorded.

Before bass players even got the hang of hearing the open Low B string, they had to allow time for their ears to adjust to a frequency so low, whether consciously or sub consciously.
Click to expand...

Except that doesn't address the problem listed. Is a bass player ever going to dictate the mix of a mainstream media recording such that they don't compress the dynamic range as much to increase volume? No, probably not, which is why the idea of it going in mainstream recordings is more iffy.

There is a big difference between "it happens" and "mainstream", and I think that's key here.
 
#98
another thing to consider about the low F# being too low to discern is that, although most publications submit that 20Hz is our lower limit(sometimes higher), that is total BS. our ears do lose a ton of sensitivity, but our chest and bones in our face perceive the lower tones as frequency. In actuality, we can "hear" down to 1Hz, it just has to be incredibly loud. We do stop being able to discern pitch at very low frequencies, but the general consensus is that that happens around 16Hz. otherwise, organs wouldn't have piping for such notes.
 
#99
I don't think the F# string will become mainstream anytime soon either, but that is okay. Some people will be able to incorporate it tastefully into their music what ever the style. I have seen a few of the ERB guys playing live using their F# (and in Yves Carbonnes case a Low E) strings. I thought they sounded really good. Those really low notes add an extra element of atmosphere and depth to the music. The notes grab your attention and make you sit there and think - "Woah that was cool! Did you hear and feel that, I really felt that note." A person participates in the experience of hearing and feeling the presence of the notes.

I hope to get a bass with one sometime soon.
 
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