Jad Freer Sisma Mega Thread.

[DJ Bebop]

I could go on stressing the point I am writing in this specific thread because I've been testing a lot the head object of this discussion vs several other amps and design. I could be as specific or technical as required since those amps have been tested both on the road and on the slab. If there is any info you are interested into before you have the occasion to try our amps I am happy to provide.

Buddy I've got nothing against your design or your observations.

Plus I would be a little disappointed if you thought your amp wasn't as good or better than what is out there. Everybody that makes stuff does

My point was any sound coming from any finished amp is the result of the designer's concept. Some are better than others, as we've seen as folks voice their opinions.

Yours results in the choice you made in what I understand, your power amp choice and design. My point I guess was that doesn't invalidate any other choices or power amp topologies in use or to come. I never said your choices were wrong or invalid. In fact I did say I would have been interested in trying your amp had I not bought something already on my fixed income and they were able to be imported into my country. I'm not like my brethren who can afford different bass amps to fit different moods or gigs.

Yes I'm jealous!

 

[DJ Bebop]

I understand what he say after trying a Darkglass, GK and Bergantino that have the same power amp. I play the darkglass for over 2 years and the Bergantino too.
They have like a direct "cold" tone to them even if they sound different because of the preamp, the colour is different. But the way they react to the playing wasn't super different from what I have felt.

Playing through an ampeg SVT3 pro, this one was like slower, not way slower like a big tube amp but it feel really different to play through that. I don't know about why it does that but it is how I feel the thing.

The only thing I "don't like" about those ICE power module is that every brand want to prove they are better than the other by changing the power on the paper. Like Darkglass say it is 900w (20% THD), GK say it is 800W (10% THD) and Bergantino say that it is 700W (1% THD) but playing through all of those and none of them was louder than the other even if it has 100 or 200W more than the other.

So you like the Ampeg SVT 3Pro, I get that and there's nothing wrong with that. That is why we are living in a good time for bass players as we don't have to choose between three or four amp companies anymore.

 

[Franz975]

So you like the Ampeg SVT 3Pro, I get that and there's nothing wrong with that. That is why we are living in a good time for bass players as we don't have to choose between three or four amp companies anymore.

No I play on my Bergantino. I prefer the more full/Hi-fi tone it has
The Ampeg is a good amp but heavier and bigger and has too much coloration for what I want.

 

[DJ Bebop]

No I play on my Bergantino. I prefer the more full/Hi-fi tone it has
The Ampeg is a good amp but heavier and bigger and has too much coloration for what I want.

But you do like the way it flaps your pants?

 

[Franz975]

But you do like the way it flaps your pants?

View attachment 5295470

For what I play at the moment I prefer my Bergantino, the low end is tighter.

But the SVT3PRO flap my pant more than the Bergantino without boosting the bass.

My actual band is pretty agressive with lot of double kick drum so I don't want to have too much bass extension.

Definitely interested in trying the Sisma because from what I understand the low end on it is pillowy but still controlled

 

[DJ Bebop]

But the SVT3PRO flap my pant more than the Bergantino without boosting the bass.

Sometimes you just have to twist those knobs to get the sounds you want!

 

[DJ Bebop]

For what I play at the moment I prefer my Bergantino, the low end is tighter.

That is another position of mine.

Not everything is for everybody all the time.
There is a reason for differences.

 

[Franz975]

That is another position of mine.

Not everything is for everybody all the time.
There is a reason for differences.

Each musician has his own preferences.
Mine are that I want a more HiFi, direct and loud enough amp because I make my tone with my board which is at the moment a Capo in a darkglass photon (which has cabsim that goes to FOH). I use the EQ on the amp more to cut frequencies that don't work with the room.
Last show the tech cut the treble on the amp and it was perfect after that. He blend my physical cab with the XLR/cabsim out

 

[staccatogrowl]

Yes but you are talking about a period when bass amps did not share the very same third-party power amp module.

However, there was a like-forever period when preamp and power amp designs were shared for free by RCA so that they could sell tubes for their designs. Leo Fender "sort of" benefited, and even took credit for Fender (RCA) designs, as did others, while trying to distinguish themselves through hype. It's all about about hype, marketing, and sales, then and now. A major difference now is that many amp excellent designers voice their amps in preamp design and implementation vs power amp.

Additionally, an important part of a practical discussion concerns meeting federal safety requirements (unless the item is not for sale, or is to be operated in a Faraday cage or Anechoic chamber), providing credible warranties, and establishing authorized service centers in country of sale. Am interested in hearing the Sisma perspective regarding these elements.

 

[DJ Bebop]

However, there was a like-forever period when preamp and power amp designs were shared for free by RCA so that they could sell tubes for their designs. Leo Fender "sort of" benefited, and even took credit for Fender (RCA) designs, as did others, while trying to distinguish themselves through hype. It's all about about hype, marketing, and sales, then and now.

Additionally, an important part of a practical discussion concerns meeting federal safety requirements (unless the item is not for sale, or is to be operated in a Faraday cage or Anechoic chamber), providing credible warranties, and establishing authorized service centers in country of sale. Am interested in hearing the Sisma perspective regarding these elements.

Yup, I mentioned the RCA connection as well.

 

[gtirard]

For what I play at the moment I prefer my Bergantino, the low end is tighter.

But the SVT3PRO flap my pant more than the Bergantino without boosting the bass.

My actual band is pretty agressive with lot of double kick drum so I don't want to have too much bass extension.

Definitely interested in trying the Sisma because from what I understand the low end on it is pillowy but still controlled

Funny you mention this, I have that feeling that Sisma's low end is both fat and tight. I don't know if it make any sense, I'm sure there's someting silly when I say this, but it seems to "flap my pants", while still being "fast" or "sharp", if it means anything. All things being equal regarding EQ and what cab I'm using. Highly subjective of course, but I have it for almost a year now, and I'm still impressed by this each time I use it.

 

[Franz975]

Funny you mention this, I have that feeling that Sisma's low end is both fat and tight. I don't know if it make any sense, I'm sure there's someting silly when I say this, but it seems to "flap my pants", while still being "fast" or "sharp", if it means anything. All things being equal regarding EQ and what cab I'm using. Highly subjective of course, but I have it for almost a year now, and I'm still impressed by this each time I use it.

That is what I wanted to hear ahah.
It make sense to me. Really nice to know that so
Merci

 

[agedhorse]

For what I play at the moment I prefer my Bergantino, the low end is tighter.

But the SVT3PRO flap my pant more than the Bergantino without boosting the bass.

My actual band is pretty agressive with lot of double kick drum so I don't want to have too much bass extension.

Definitely interested in trying the Sisma because from what I understand the low end on it is pillowy but still controlled

The Ampeg and Bergantino preamp voicings are quite different, play both preamps through the same power amp and the results will also be similar to what you experienced.

However, there was a like-forever period when preamp and power amp designs were shared for free by RCA so that they could sell tubes for their designs. Leo Fender "sort of" benefited, and even took credit for Fender (RCA) designs, as did others, while trying to distinguish themselves through hype. It's all about about hype, marketing, and sales, then and now. A major difference now is that many amp excellent designers voice their amps in preamp design and implementation vs power amp.

Additionally, an important part of a practical discussion concerns meeting federal safety requirements (unless the item is not for sale, or is to be operated in a Faraday cage or Anechoic chamber), providing credible warranties, and establishing authorized service centers in country of sale. Am interested in hearing the Sisma perspective regarding these elements.

Folks also forget that there are really only a few solid state topologies that are used in the majority of linear (class AB/B/G/H) amps, these too were promoted by the semiconductor companies to sell transistors. Application notes were as common back in the good ‘ol days as they are today.

 

[Jeff Scott]

It would be sad if all bass amps sounded the same, what would be the point.

Then, we'd all have to rely solely on (different) basses to create the sounds in our heads.

The only thing I "don't like" about those ICE power module is that every brand want to prove they are better than the other by changing the power on the paper. Like Darkglass say it is 900w (20% THD), GK say it is 800W (10% THD) and Bergantino say that it is 700W (1% THD)...

Well, that make sense given the power levels are tied in with THD specs.

 

[Franz975]

The Ampeg and Bergantino preamp voicings are quite different, play both preamps through the same power amp and the results will also be similar to what you experienced.



Folks also forget that there are really only a few solid state topologies that are used in the majority of linear (class AB/B/G/H) amps, these too were promoted by the semiconductor companies to sell transistors. Application notes were as common back in the good ‘ol days as they are today.

Yeah the preamp are completely different, I prefer the Bergantino because it is closer to a DI than Ampeg

 

[Franz975]

Then, we'd all have to rely solely on (different) basses to create the sounds in our heads.

Well, that make sense given the power levels are tied in with THD specs.

Yes for sure. The "problem" is always the marketing to me. Saying an Amp is X Watts so it is better than the other without talking about why (the THD here)

 

[Jeff Scott]

Yes for sure. The "problem" is always the marketing to me. Saying an Amp is X Watts so it is better than the other without talking about why (the THD here)

Unfortunately, that is all too common.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Then, we'd all have to rely solely on (different) basses to create the sounds in our heads.

 

[agedhorse]

Yes for sure. The "problem" is always the marketing to me. Saying an Amp is X Watts so it is better than the other without talking about why (the THD here)

I have discussed in great detail on TalkBaas “why”. Much of the THD in sone bass amps is intentionally generated and tuned within the preamp, and therefore when looking at the THD at the speaker output, it may be 10% even if the contribution by the power amp is essentially zero.

I’ve done over 20 years of research on this subject, to understand what is desired and what is not from a player perspective. Once this is understood, so many other elements of why one amp is perceived as being “better” becomes much clearer.

 

[Franz975]

I have discussed in great detail on TalkBaas “why”. Much of the THD in sone bass amps is intentionally generated and tuned within the preamp, and therefore when looking at the THD at the speaker output, it may be 10% even if the contribution by the power amp is essentially zero.

I’ve done over 20 years of research on this subject, to understand what is desired and what is not from a player perspective. Once this is understood, so many other elements of why one amp is perceived as being “better” becomes much clearer.

It would be hard to resume 20 y in a forum for sure. But I don't understand why one brand say this amp is 900W and this is 700W but when I play through them there is not one that is louder than another. Is it because it is the exact same power amp module ?