I know that most bass players learn other bass player's bass lines. We learn cover songs and pickup techniques based on the songs we play. Some of us might be fortunate enough to create our own unique technique, but from what I see at most local clubs, most bass players play very much the same. How do you think bassists like James Jamerson were able to develop such a unique technique and style? I mean, there are just some bass players that sound like no other.
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James Jamerson's style and unique technique
- Thread starter u84six
- Start date
Starting with learning Notation instead of TABS. Don't get me wrong I use TABS also. I've started learning Notation. Practicing Scales, and Chords (Triads).
Then when following along with simple G A C, I'll experiment.
Or G A A B.
Trying octives instead of just sitting on the one string one note.
Hey that sounded pretty good
I'm a schlep newbie so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
Then when following along with simple G A C, I'll experiment.
Or G A A B.
Trying octives instead of just sitting on the one string one note.
Hey that sounded pretty good
I'm a schlep newbie so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
i believe the extra gifted musician's - the van halens, SRVs, Victor Wootens, Mozarts etc just get stuff way faster than the norm ....they are able to learn from what they hear, internalize it, make it their own and change it far quicker than the rest of us!
When you do it for a living, you do it alot...doing things alot makes you good at them.
Combine that with being naturally creative, you get that.
Combine that with being naturally creative, you get that.
Bassists are still pioneering new technique. Since it's a relatively new instrument (just 60-75 years old), there's still new ground to break in technique.
But when you were that much closer to the debut of electric bass, formerly upright bassists--and particularly jazzmen like Jamerson and Monk Montgomery--had to make technique up as they went.
I just want to play clean and somewhat ergonomically. I think it starts there: Does it sound musical? Will you hurt yourself if you play like this long-term?
But when you were that much closer to the debut of electric bass, formerly upright bassists--and particularly jazzmen like Jamerson and Monk Montgomery--had to make technique up as they went.
I just want to play clean and somewhat ergonomically. I think it starts there: Does it sound musical? Will you hurt yourself if you play like this long-term?
James Jamerson himself seemed to be playing upright bass jazz parts while his counterparts were playing blues or country. The arrangements Motown used also seemed to keep everybody else out of the way of the singers and the piano players did not do a blues stride with their left hands leaving all that room for Jamerson to roam. If the rest of the Funk Brothers were more active in adding fills today Jamerson may have been considered wanking by some.
On the car and transistor radio speakers of the era nobody probably noticed him as much as the Motown house producers or the musicians in the studio with him. As they liked the support he provided they left room being the professionals they were.
On the car and transistor radio speakers of the era nobody probably noticed him as much as the Motown house producers or the musicians in the studio with him. As they liked the support he provided they left room being the professionals they were.
It's important to look at their contributions in context. If you only know about what electric bass was like in the '60s then Jamerson's playing is hugely different from what was going on before him. But when you look at the context to the double bass in jazz, and what was going on in jazz in general, it makes a lot more sense.
So a key critical element is that the "innovators" generally have big ears and listen to a LOT of different kinds of music. The "... van halens (sic), SRVs, Victor Wootens, Mozarts..." heard a lot of different things and didn't let genre or style limit their approach. Edward Van Halen is a huge fan of Mozart, grew up loving the classical and jazz clarinet stuff his father played, and learned every solo Eric Clapton recorded with Cream. Then he jumbled all that together with whatever else was going on in his head. Now the most important part is he listened to himself too. See, he apparently STILL can play all those Cream solos exactly like Clapton did- but he's never sounded like a Clapton wannabe. He used that as the template for what HE wanted to sound like.
Same with SRV- 'though I'm not a huge fan and certainly don't think he's any kind of an innovator, he did cop all those Albert King things and put them into a different context with David Bowie. And Victor Wooten developed some of his technique from trying to sound like a banjo well before he hooked up with Bela Fleck.
So where'd Jamerson come up with his technique and his style (two very different but interrelated things)? From understanding the rich history of MUSIC as well as his chosen instrument, and then putting it into what he was playing.
John
So a key critical element is that the "innovators" generally have big ears and listen to a LOT of different kinds of music. The "... van halens (sic), SRVs, Victor Wootens, Mozarts..." heard a lot of different things and didn't let genre or style limit their approach. Edward Van Halen is a huge fan of Mozart, grew up loving the classical and jazz clarinet stuff his father played, and learned every solo Eric Clapton recorded with Cream. Then he jumbled all that together with whatever else was going on in his head. Now the most important part is he listened to himself too. See, he apparently STILL can play all those Cream solos exactly like Clapton did- but he's never sounded like a Clapton wannabe. He used that as the template for what HE wanted to sound like.
Same with SRV- 'though I'm not a huge fan and certainly don't think he's any kind of an innovator, he did cop all those Albert King things and put them into a different context with David Bowie. And Victor Wooten developed some of his technique from trying to sound like a banjo well before he hooked up with Bela Fleck.
So where'd Jamerson come up with his technique and his style (two very different but interrelated things)? From understanding the rich history of MUSIC as well as his chosen instrument, and then putting it into what he was playing.
John
Echoing JTE's post. The techniques came from a musical NEED. Well Jamerson obviously the one finger thing came from upright.
But Wooten, by his own account he couldn't play Stanley Clarke lines fast enough with 2 fingers, so the double thumb/ double pluck thing developed there.
EVH, although this isn't from the man himself, it's from Jeff Berlin, apparently came up with the tapping when trying to emulate Allan Holdsworth. I think I can hear it when listening to both of them, and Berlin's a pretty reliable source having played with them both.
So yeah, as John suggests, Music> Technique.
But Wooten, by his own account he couldn't play Stanley Clarke lines fast enough with 2 fingers, so the double thumb/ double pluck thing developed there.
EVH, although this isn't from the man himself, it's from Jeff Berlin, apparently came up with the tapping when trying to emulate Allan Holdsworth. I think I can hear it when listening to both of them, and Berlin's a pretty reliable source having played with them both.
So yeah, as John suggests, Music> Technique.
James Jamerson was a very unique player for his time and I've had to comp some of his bass lines over the years. He had some pretty standard basic riffs he used but what always intrigued me was the way he would use scales to propel the feel of the song. One great example is in the turnaround of The Four Tops; "Same Old Song". His synchopated lines like in "Papa Was a Rolling Stone" were fairly simple but incredibly effective in that same way.
The man had incredible taste in his playing and was a great naturally intutitive player. I think over time you develop a sense of that playing in the same esemble and with the same players. The Stax guys, essentially Booker T and the MG's, had that same vibe and Duck Dunn is another great R&B bassist IMO.
They say Jamerson's sound (tone) came from a PBass with old, deader than hell flats on it and from listening to him I can believe it. How much time and money do we spend today trying to reproduce it when maybe all we have to do is play with a set of 10 year old flats crudded up with finger grease.
The man had incredible taste in his playing and was a great naturally intutitive player. I think over time you develop a sense of that playing in the same esemble and with the same players. The Stax guys, essentially Booker T and the MG's, had that same vibe and Duck Dunn is another great R&B bassist IMO.
They say Jamerson's sound (tone) came from a PBass with old, deader than hell flats on it and from listening to him I can believe it. How much time and money do we spend today trying to reproduce it when maybe all we have to do is play with a set of 10 year old flats crudded up with finger grease.
I think his style was the result of being an incredibly intuitive player. The only special technique I've ever heard of was finger style playing of those old dead strings. Other than that I'm in the dark. What were you looking for?
There is no magic about how those guys reached the level they did, it is pretty well documented that all of those guys started at a young age (not sure about SRV) and they all spent a huge amount of time practicing, playing, and composing before they became successful. How much time? Most likely, at least 10,000 hours. Check out the "Natural Ability??" thread in the Anthony Wellington forum for a more in-depth discussion on the topic.
OP- you asked how do WE THINK they were able to come up with technique and style, we each offered something. There isn't a wrong answer if you're asking for opinions.
And yes, as GeoffT says, practice.
And yes, as GeoffT says, practice.
i dont think jamerson is an example of a great or unique technique. He had great groove, musicality and taste. His greatness dont have anything about any physic skill that you could develop by repeating practice routines..
Yet, his (or any master player/innovator's) greatness wouldn't have ever become manifest had they NOT spent the many hours practicing and playing. All of the greats put tremendous amounts of time and work into their art. They didn't just pick up the instrument one morning and show greatness. Its something of an insult to them to suggest otherwise, IMO.
To simply say "I can't achieve what so & so did because I'm not him." is absolutely true...but to use that as an excuse not to become the best YOU can be by putting in the hours, is completely self-limiting. EVERYONE has some potential, and it takes work to realize it. How would you ever know what it is you could achieve, if you start with a negative "can't do" attitude and never put in the work?
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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I think there is a whole world of high level professional bass players and musicians who would argue otherwise.
He created sounds, licks, and phrasing that had never been done before on electric bass and influenced every other electric player that came after him (whether they know it or not).
GREAT!! One of the guitarists mentioned in the post I responded to is SRV. Now, I find SRV interesting, but in no way innovative. But my real problem with SRV is not Stevie's music, but rather the plethora of Hats 'n' Strats Stevie Ray Wannabees who sound just like him. Sad, just sad. They've missed the entire lesson of SRV, which is to take all your influences- which for SRV include Hendrix, Albert King, his big brother (who is MUCH more interesting) Jimmie, etc.- and mush them up together. What comes out is YOU and if it sounds just like someone else you still have a lot of work to do.
John
