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Jazz and the Bass Guitar

#61
Phil Smith said:
BG is good in situations where the dynamic range of the group is small and the volume level is high. The big band I play with just plays loud in contrast to the community orchestra that I play with. With the big band or any band that requres you to amplify you lose a lot of the sound "quality" of the DB. Often people want the DB for the look and for the acoustic sound in a situation where they need the sonic footprint of a BG.
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You mean, small dynamic range compared to the symphony orchestra, right? A lot of that depends on what's in the book the BB is using.
 
#63
I'll pop in for my 2 cents!

I play both upright and electric, but I started on electric. For a while, I always thought my electric sounded better than my upright. I groaned whenever I needed to bring it because it would require a lot of extra effort for a sound that I didn't prefer.

Definitely not the case anymore!

I have been a double bass performance major for 2 years now, and I have since refined the snot out of my upright technique. I now can say that, for straightahead jazz, I choose to play my upright in a heartbeat. Maybe it's a mindset thing...I swing so. much. harder on my upright. Swing feels so much more natural on the upright, I don't really know how to describe it. Other musicians get excited when I bring my upright.

Now, granted, some of the things you said in your article are true. The electric can be much more of a lyrical instrument because a) it is easier to play adeptly in the upper registers, and b) it projects better in the upper register because it has so much more sustain. (want sustain in your upright solos? Use a bow ;) ). But yeah, you're not gonna get Pastorius solos from the upper register of your upright...you could try though. My bass teacher actually did an arco version of Donna Lee as part of his undergrad senior recital.

Another observation I've found is that the upright sounds more natural, while the electric sounds more synthetic. Maybe that seems obvious, but it's a very important distinction to make. Electric also gives things a more modern edge, which in many cases might be what is called for. It all really depends on the situation, who the players are, what the tunes are, etc. It sucks, but sometimes I bring both to a gig!
 
#64
The thought that anyone is any less of a musician because they play the electric bass and not an upright is immature and childish.

I play the electric bass because that is the instrument I enjoy playing most. I can play whatever style of music that I want and no one can say anything about it. If someone doesn't want me to play in their gig because I play an electric, then I have no desire to play with those people anyway.
 
#65
HaVIC5 said:
I know this is the one debate that TB is more tired of than pick v. finger, but I thought the community might like to read my thoughts on bass guitar in straight ahead jazz. I got really into some points which I've never really heard discussed here on TB, like the technical reasons why the sound of an electric isn't appealing to a lot of jazz musicians and what situations BG might fit best in and why. I'm interested what everybody's thoughts are here.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Enjoy!

-Adam
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Great article. Really enjoyed it, as well as the recommended blogs. Thanks.
 
#67
We feel differently on whether the EB has a place in straight-ahead jazz and that's cool. I'm just glad that the band leaders that employed Anthony Jackson throughout the years didn't tell him no. We would have been robbed of some incredible bass playing to enjoy.
 
#68
Bernie Connors said:
We feel differently on whether the EB has a place in straight-ahead jazz and that's cool. I'm just glad that the band leaders that employed Anthony Jackson throughout the years didn't tell him no. We would have been robbed of some incredible bass playing to enjoy.
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No we wouldn't have been robbed, we just would have heard some other incredible bass playing by someone else.
 
#71
Phil Smith said:
I don't know if I've heard a big band at ppp,pp or p, YMMV.
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I can see that. Lots of big bands that play the favorites are basically shouting all night long. Sing, Sing, Sing for instance (fans of Looney Tunes will recognize this).

OTOH, if you don't hear at least some p in In The Mood, for example, the band's not playing it correctly. There's supposed to be a breakdown before the last chorus.

Getting away from the swing era, Goodman, and Miller, there's a lot of modern stuff that has huge dynamics. However the odds of hearing it are about the same as hearing the local symphony do some Scriabin. :(
 
#72
okcrum said:
I can see that. Lots of big bands that play the favorites are basically shouting all night long. Sing, Sing, Sing for instance (fans of Looney Tunes will recognize this).
(
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Probably true for 75% of big bands working today. The 4th one is more of a society band, and they are so old, they can't blow that hard anymore.





:p

Edit: I've heard on good authority though, that THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! (for you kids, that's been a long running joke since about 1972).
 
#73
I'm lucky to play in a big-band that works on modern material -- at least post swing era. One challenge is simply finding charts, and of course we're a band on a budget with part time players and a director who graciously gives his time. A retired music professor has written some charts for us, and some band members have done so as well.

A lot of big-bands seem to fall back on "greatest hits" for a number of reasons. One is charts, and another is rehearsal time.

I'd even be happy playing older material, if it wasn't the same stuff over and over.
 
#74
fdeck said:
I'm lucky to play in a big-band that works on modern material -- at least post swing era. One challenge is simply finding charts, and of course we're a band on a budget with part time players and a director who graciously gives his time. A retired music professor has written some charts for us, and some band members have done so as well.

A lot of big-bands seem to fall back on "greatest hits" for a number of reasons. One is charts, and another is rehearsal time.

I'd even be happy playing older material, if it wasn't the same stuff over and over.
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Yeah, then there are the budget charts, kind of like the 1st generation Real Books, approximating the tune. It seems the bands that are better off have either their own writers or someone connected to the publishers or bands. One band I worked with, the leader played with Stan Kenton, so we had a lot of Kenton charts. That was fun.

To segue back into Adam's topic, let's hit a classic Ray Brown (original album on DB) and Louis Johnson (this version on EB) performance of a Benny Golson tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q80XTIEPxc
 
#75
Upright is a plus for jazz, but I'd rather have a good player on bass guitar than a bad one on upright. You can get close to an upright sound with palm muting.

But a bass guitar is never going to sound like Ron Carter. Now there's some tone.
 
#76
frisbieinstein said:
Upright is a plus for jazz, but I'd rather have a good player on bass guitar than a bad one on upright. You can get close to an upright sound with palm muting.

But a bass guitar is never going to sound like Ron Carter. Now there's some tone.
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I think even the worst amplified DB sounds better than a palm muted BG. YMMV :D
 
#79
narud said:
i know youre much more of an aj aficionado than i am. are there any recordings where aj is playing swing and not the latin tinged stuff?
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Not the best example of this wonderful trio (maybe Bernie has a better example), but reasonably representative of Anthony's work in this setting IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwnNljaR-88&feature=related

Edit: This approach, feel and tone is representative of many, many, many trio's and quartets in that mid 70's to mid 80's era some of us have been talking about, and although at a much higher level, is pretty close to at least the feel and vibe of the trio's and quartets I continue to perform with playing this 'brand' of jazz. I'd call this sort of thing 'updated straight ahead'... you most likely will disagree!
 
#80
KJung said:
Not the best example of this wonderful trio (maybe Bernie has a better example), but reasonably representative of Anthony's work in this setting IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwnNljaR-88&feature=related

Edit: This approach, feel and tone is representative of many, many, many trio's and quartets in that mid 70's to mid 80's era some of us have been talking about, and although at a much higher level, is pretty close to at least the feel and vibe of the trio's and quartets I continue to perform with playing this 'brand' of jazz. I'd call this sort of thing 'updated straight ahead'... you most likely will disagree!
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I had no idea this trio was on youtube. I have their live album from Tokyo which I'm assuming was recorded around the same time as this video.
Michel Petrucciani had such wonderful phrasing and Steve Gadd was the pefect match for this trio, he grooves so hard.

Anthony Jackson is a bass player I've come to respect and admire the more and more I've grown as a musician. He just plays the most perfect basslines, no matter what genre he's playing. I really admire that man.

Man thanks for posting this link!
 

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