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Jazz Shielding Pictorial (Big Images Warning)

#642
Ragnor said:
I just took a look at stewmac.com and I came across conductive paint.
any thoughts on that? Seems to me like a very efficient and quick way to shield everything.
Click to expand...
Yeah, lots of vendors use this stuff (Such as Roger Sadowsky). The thing about the paint is it's not as conductive as the tape. So the key is making sure to get "the good stuff" (I never did figure out how to verify that) and also do multiple coats to get a nice solid coating of it.

So you don't have to go through the hassles of cutting, shaping, sticking, and possible tacking, but it takes you a couple days to get it done, since you have to make sure each coat is very very dry before applying another. Even then, I think tape is still better. Even Stewmac.com says in the page for their conductive paint they recommend their tape for best results.
 
#643
Two issues came up for me after I shielded my bass abd hopefully it can be solved. This is on a Jazz.

Issue one is that when I screw the screw down in to the hole that has the extra 'lip' of conductive paint the output from the bass is 0. I can stick the screw in, even half way, and there's output, but as soon as I screw it down all the way output ceases. Possible cause/solution?

I'm not sure if there's actually a second issue, but something that worries me is that I'm not sure if the 'no load' pot on the tone control is working correctly. It's wired like a normal tone pot is, except the cap is grounded to the output jack. I think I might hear a difference with it at different settings, but it definitely doesn't cause strong changes to the tone like I'd expect, so I would like to resolve that concern I have.
 
#644
Deepbuzz said:
Issue one is that when I screw the screw down in to the hole that has the extra 'lip' of conductive paint the output from the bass is 0. I can stick the screw in, even half way, and there's output, but as soon as I screw it down all the way output ceases. Possible cause/solution?
Click to expand...
Yep, your signal wire is somehow shorting to ground somewhere. Look for it. Must be a close proximity somewhere if all it takes is flexing the plate a little (tightening the screw) to make contact.
 
#645
Vic said:
Yeah, lots of vendors use this stuff (Such as Roger Sadowsky). The thing about the paint is it's not as conductive as the tape. So the key is making sure to get "the good stuff" (I never did figure out how to verify that) and also do multiple coats to get a nice solid coating of it.

So you don't have to go through the hassles of cutting, shaping, sticking, and possible tacking, but it takes you a couple days to get it done, since you have to make sure each coat is very very dry before applying another. Even then, I think tape is still better. Even Stewmac.com says in the page for their conductive paint they recommend their tape for best results.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
#646
One of the best and most useful stickies ever!

I just did this to my Squier Affinity Jazz V after noticing that it would buzz if I wasn't touching the strings or the control plate. I used the Stew Mac kit and followed Lyle's original instructions and approach pretty much to the letter. I've very happy with the results but unfortunately have not been able to completely test. As a final check before putting the bass back together, I wanted to test that pickups, pots, etc were working ok. Wasn't getting any output from bridge pickup. Rechecked all wiring, connections, etc. Then I looked at the pickup and the small coil wire that goes from the coil to the solder connection was severed. Oh no! Tried to trace the wire back and unwind some more to resolder and then it happened - I lost the end in the coil somewhere. More searching resulted in a bigger pile of coil wire ends. I'll now have to wait till later this week to get my replacement set of pickups

However, I noticed that when the control plate wasn't touching the ground contact it was pretty noisy and when it was - dead quite! I'm looking forward to putting this guy back together.

As with all projects like this, I could do it again in about 1/2 the time.
 
#647
Lyle, thanks for the posts! I am glad you understand shielding. (Sorry to be a geek but this whole topic has nothing to do with grounding!) For a solid read on shielding, noise and grounds in pro audio check out anything Bill Whitlock of Jensen transformers has written.

On a personal note, how many others have found the Fender SCN bridge pickup is succeptible to buzz? Mine is a fiver. I've had it replaced and to factory service centers twice. the volume-tone plate is metal and all cavities are lined with paint, hopefully it is conductive.
 
#648
joe5cent said:
On a personal note, how many others have found the Fender SCN bridge pickup is succeptible to buzz? Mine is a fiver. I've had it replaced and to factory service centers twice. the volume-tone plate is metal and all cavities are lined with paint, hopefully it is conductive.
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I think those might be split coils, which means while it won't be nearly as noisy as a single coil, it's also not fully humbucking on a five string bass because of the 2 vs 3 thing.
 
#649
Vic said:
Even Stewmac.com says in the page for their conductive paint they recommend their tape for best results.
Click to expand...

Just so everyone is clear, Vic's recollection about Stewmac recommending the shielding tape over the paint was [I think] based on this quote: "We recommend our conductive tape for best results when shielding smooth plastic pickguards." However, if it's not obvious in the quote itself, I think they were merely suggesting the tape would be easier to work with a smooth flat plastic medium like a pickguard vs. painting on the paint with a brush (it probably much messier using paint in this specific situation than the tape).

Wasn't trying to discredit Vic or anything. He is always a good source of info here on TB and I thoroughly appreciate all his macro shots in the Nordy and Alleva threads :)
 
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#650
ac3320 said:
Just so everyone is clear, Vic's recollection about Stewmac recommending the shielding tape over the paint was [I think] based on this quote: "We recommend our conductive tape for best results when shielding smooth plastic pickguards." However, if it's not obvious in the quote itself, I think they were merely suggesting the tape would be easier to work with a smooth flat plastic medium like a pickguard vs. painting on the paint with a brush (it probably much messier using paint in this specific situation than the tape).
Click to expand...
True, but I still feel the tape is a better shield material... unless maybe you use several coats of the paint, in which case, it becomes debatable which method is easier. I personally also like tape a lot because solder sticks to it.
 
#653
cpas said:
Anyone have any idea where the pictures that were originally associated with this thread can be found? Great threat btw. Immensely helpful.
Click to expand...
Do a search for last posts from the OP. He had to change servers, but for some reason, the mods can't seem to fix the first post. He's asked, I've asked. Oh well.
 
#654
I keep reading a lot of posts in this thread where expectations include eliminating the 'buzzing' sound when you're not touching the strings (human ground). Is that really a realistic expectation from a shielding job? Some background noise could be reduced, but won't the ground buzz still exist if you're not in contact with the strings?
 
#655
scotch said:
I keep reading a lot of posts in this thread where expectations include eliminating the 'buzzing' sound when you're not touching the strings (human ground). Is that really a realistic expectation from a shielding job? Some background noise could be reduced, but won't the ground buzz still exist if you're not in contact with the strings?
Click to expand...
There are two issues. Grounding and sheilding. Both are discussed in this thread. Depending on the design of the pickups and the correctness of the grounding scheme, yes, you can get there.
 
#656
Vic said:
...unless maybe you use several coats of the paint, in which case, it becomes debatable which method is easier.
Click to expand...

Their instructions call for at least 3 coats, so unless one is just lazy, there would always be multiple coats. Easier, meh. I agree: a toss up. I just don't want anyone to think the paint is a bad way to go. For a rear-route or some other strangely-shaped route, i would for sure use the paint. More 'regular' routes like P and J routes from Fender, yeah, either would work fine :)

+1 on wanting the pictures...i'll have to look at the OP's last posts to find 'em..
 
#659
Vic said:
It most certainly is not. Otherwise Roger Sadowsky wouldn't use it, and his basses set the standard for "quiet". :)
Click to expand...

Same for my Mike Lull. Dead quiet with single coils. Shield paint everywhere.

However 2 things. First, probably easier and cheaper for manufacturers to use paint. I would argue it's also easier to do as part of the production process than for an already built instrument. I bought the stew mac kit and had plenty left over. It was very easy to do and required only a pair of scissors. Now that I've done it once should take about 1/2 the time for next one.

Second, re:grounding and shielding, my bass was noticeably quieter after adding the foil and rerouting the grounds when I wasn't touching it.
 
#660
1) I searched the site and someone does have the pics in a word document.
2) The term ground should only technicaly be used in refering to AC power or similar systems that have an earth ground reference. Thru sloppy usage a signal shield or common has been called 'ground' but it ain't. The reason I say this is a small effort to try to help us all communicate and think clearly.
3) Moving and cleaning up wiring in a bass cavity is huge. There is a good reason why twisted pair audio cable and network cables have their signal pairs twisted together. When cables are run in way that forms an open look you get an antenna. In a cavity it is a receiving antenna, in a room with a 3 way switch it can be a hum transmitting antenna.
 

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