Jazz soloing technique

[darqmatter]

Absolutely right, there is no right or bad notes everything it’s about how you articulate this notes

Given a particular location in a song's sequence of chord changes, there will be a pool of notes that are easy to use, a pool of notes that require care, and a pool of notes that sound just dead wrong. We tend to think of these pools of notes as scales.

I do hate to contradict so directly but there are better and worse notes... notes that make a person's ear feel like either you know where you are in the music or that you have no idea of what you are doing.

There isn't an absolute right and wrong, but the fact remains that some notes sound better than others in a given circumstance. That being said... notes are given way too much focus and things like articulation, phrasing, rhythm, rest are given short shrift. They matter to overall musicality a great deal more than notes. Especially if you're the drummer.

 

[darqmatter]

I still can’t figure out how to enter those slash chords on iReal pro.

You type in the slash in the editor box when you have a chord selected.

iphone:



Mac:

 

[Spin Doctor]

People don't generally go to hear bass solos either...

So why would I ever go to a Stanley Clarke or John Pattitucci concert if not for the solos? Maybe YOU don't go for the solos, but there are many who do go JUST to hear them.

 

[Tony Seel]

I was taught that the notes of different scales or modes correspond to different chords. So, the notes of a major scale would fit for a major chord, a dorian mode for a d minor chord, and so on. No one wants to hear scales from a stage, but these are the notes that fit into the solo. Throw in blues scales and melodies created within these scales and modes and you have the tools for improvising. Agree or disagree?

 

[mrcbass]

This thread is quite amazing. I get the impression people are taking people who can play great solos and then fitting an appropriate rule around them that fits what was, not about to be, played. Let's be honest, some great players don't know one end of a Greek Mode from another. What they do know is instinctively what fits what is being played - and that is the important bit. People with advanced musical theory knowledge might be able to recite the note name for any mode in any key, but this doesn't mean they have the creativity to play the wild and exciting stuff the real names can produce. I have never been very good at soloing, and mine have always been versions of the existing melody - taking the tune and playing with it. This is how ALL my solos come out. I've been playing for over 40 years on traditional and modern instruments, and I know most of the modes without thinking and they don't help me produce jazz solos one jot! It's just not me. I cannot even start to think about using scales, arpeggios, modes and variations because in my head, a tune of sorts pops in, and my fingers play it. Lots of people in this topics are suggesting that to be a good jazz musician you must be able to do this, or that and in jazz, you just do what is right - for you and the audience, plus the band. Some of us will be crap at it, and others amazing. We're all jazz musicians. Rules explain what we do, but breaking them is often the best way to make it work - IF - you break them in the right way!

The OP was asking for advise on how to get started learning how to solo. Use of basic theory concepts (scales and such)is a tried and true method of getting started. Yes there are plenty of examples of great soloists who may not have any idea about why their solos work - they just have that special gift (imagine what they could do if they knew the fundamentals!).

No offense to the OP, but since he's asking for guidance, I'm betting he doesn't have THAT gift. And for the record I suck at soloing despite an on and off lifetime of music education. Now that I'm working a jazz fusion project they expect me to take some solos. I really don't improv - I have to spend hours developing a solos line that I memorize. I always start this process noodling over different scales until I stumble across some lines that I can exploit. But each time I work out a new solo it becomes a little easier and I do find that I can wander off my memorized lines just a little - because I understand where I can go from any place in my "scales".

I'll never be that great soloist guy because I don't have THAT special gift either - but I can get by using a theoretical foundation to work from.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

You type in the slash in the editor box when you have a chord selected.

iphone:

View attachment 2989291

Mac:
View attachment 2989303

Does the letter S above some chords in your first snapshot means a Slash chord?

 

[Spin Doctor]

The OP was asking for advise on how to get started learning how to solo. Use of basic theory concepts (scales and such)is a tried and true method of getting started. Yes there are plenty of examples of great soloists who may not have any idea about why their solos work - they just have that special gift (imagine what they could do if they knew the fundamentals!).

No offense to the OP, but since he's asking for guidance, I'm betting he doesn't have THAT gift. And for the record I suck at soloing despite an on and off lifetime of music education. Now that I'm working a jazz fusion project they expect me to take some solos. I really don't improv - I have to spend hours developing a solos line that I memorize. I always start this process noodling over different scales until I stumble across some lines that I can exploit. But each time I work out a new solo it becomes a little easier and I do find that I can wander off my memorized lines just a little - because I understand where I can go from any place in my "scales".

I'll never be that great soloist guy because I don't have THAT special gift either - but I can get by using a theoretical foundation to work from.

Honestly, it's not about having some special gift, or magic finger dust or any of that. It's about having a direction to go in and putting in a lot of hard work... It's about work ethic and learning the right stuff from the start.

I also take issue to the notion that there are "plenty great soloists" that essentially have no idea what they are doing. Which implies they are magically making up phrases as they go along. I can't say if that's not true in the early days of jazz, and although there are still many who don't really read music, you don't read solos anyway. In the main, modern jazz musicians read well, and are very well aware of what they are doing at all times.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I was taught that the notes of different scales or modes correspond to different chords. So, the notes of a major scale would fit for a major chord, a dorian mode for a d minor chord, and so on. No one wants to hear scales from a stage, but these are the notes that fit into the solo. Throw in blues scales and melodies created within these scales and modes and you have the tools for improvising. Agree or disagree?

The technique you are describing is called "Chord Scale" soloing. There is another approach called "Chord TONE" soloing which is arguably a better way to start out. Chord scale soloing is popular because it allows you to get some kind of result right from the start. The problem is that it allows a novice improviser (guilty as charged) to present way too much musical information before he knows how to really craft a line, since chord scales allow you to play all the chord tones and all the tensions immediately. Plus it's easier to play fast lines in a scalar fashion (half steps and whole steps) than a chordal fashion (3rds, 5ths, etc.) So the gratification is more instant.

Chord scale isn't evil, but it's probably better to start with Chord tone. The arpeggio mantra that's chanted here is a good one, and it's the ideal place to start. But eventually, you have to move to the next thing... then the next thing... then the next... It's a brick by brick process. Like building a house.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

No offense to the OP, but since he's asking for guidance, I'm betting he doesn't have THAT gift.

Some musicians are VERY talented, some are more talented, some are less talented (it's me), but USUALLY, all of them
spent (are spending) LOTS of time practicing, exercising, experimenting, etc...
NO EXCEPTIONS.

I really don't improv - I have to spend hours developing a solos line that I memorize.

N.B. Maybe you are a perfectionist musician. Lots of jazz musicians can IMMEDIATELY solo, but it's not always an excellent solo example. In their minds - it's OK because they will play MILLIONS of solos; therefore, they are not going to be discourage by one mediocre solo.
You, on the other, most probably want to hear something very special and are working on that ONE, close to perfection, solo. I don't see any issues with that.

N.B. Practice makes perfect.
It means that the more you practice the easier (a little bit) it gets to play solos, but...
A big "but"!

If you are a 10 years or 16 years old beginner with a "brand new" brain, it's much much easier for your brain to initiate and to internalize some things (including "soloing") in comparison to an old guy, like me.
The young brain memorizes and processes, and standardizes/internalizes new things faster than my OLD brain; therefore,
DON'T be discouraged or upset that the VICTOR (Wooten) who started playing bass at age 6(!!!) is a little bit better than some other musicians like me. Just imagine what 48 years spent day and night with the bass guitar could do to almost anybody, even to those who have less talent/gift for music.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

here is another approach called "Chord TONE" soloing which is arguably a better way to start out.

As bass players, we hear the following, "Play the chord notes". If so, SOLOING by playing the same notes as the Bass Player - a comping instrument from the rhythm group - could sound strange.

 

[mrcbass]

Honestly, it's not about having some special gift, or magic finger dust or any of that. It's about having a direction to go in and putting in a lot of hard work... It's about work ethic and learning the right stuff from the start.

I also take issue to the notion that there are "plenty great soloists" that essentially have no idea what they are doing. Which implies they are magically making up phrases as they go along. I can't say if that's not true in the early days of jazz, and although there are still many who don't really read music, you don't read solos anyway. In the main, modern jazz musicians read well, and are very well aware of what they are doing at all times.

Well, we may be splitting hairs, but agree to disagree. Yes hard work and theory study is the path for most of us. But I do believe there are some people that just have natural instincts to play great songs/solos/lines without really understanding the underlying theory of why they work. There are prodigies that can't read a lick of music built blow us away with. On the other hand there are many of us who can work our butts off, have years of theory education and just never get very good at it. It's an art and art usually requires some innate talent to excel.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

The technique you are describing is called "Chord Scale" soloing.

I'm for the "Chord Scale" method but not just playing scales up and down.
A lot of commentators in this thread emphasized the importance of the Melody but...
What to do if there is NO melody, just two, or three, or four chords and its progression?

 

[Whousedtoplay]

some people that just have natural instincts to play great songs/solos/lines without really understanding the underlying theory of why they work.

Once again, some people are VERY talented, some are more talented, etc..., but here is one thing that I truly disagree with you.
Can anybody's natural instinct without listening to Music, without Practicing playing music, etc..., ONE DAY just wake up and start soloing?
(I'm not talking about the Disneyland movies.)

 

[Spin Doctor]

As bass players, we hear the following, "Play the chord notes". If so, SOLOING by playing the same notes as the Bass Player - a comping instrument from the rhythm group - could sound strange.

There is an entire study method involved. It's not just playing chord tones. There are methods to enclose the chord tones, ways to approach them, etc. It's way more involved than it sounds on the face of it.

 

[robcrozierbass1]

I watch players soloing some jazz sounding chops, I solo but never can create the sound, what scales are being used in a jazz solo.
Thanks

Hi Keith,
I recommend that you look up bebop scales. This adds chromaticism to your solos while encouraging
you to develop actuals musical gestures. As others have mentioned, playing jazz takes time. Add jazz sounding gestures to your solos still takes time. Jazz is a language that you must internalize for it to come out sounding like jazz, so transcribing solos can be an important way to internalize the language.
The most important thing to do is experiment with some ideas and record yourself. Listening to yourself
is the best way to gauge if you are getting the result.
I'll have more thoughts later....

 

[mrcbass]

N.B. Maybe you are a perfectionist musician. Lots of jazz musicians can IMMEDIATELY solo, but it's not always an excellent solo example. In their minds - it's OK because they will play MILLIONS of solos; therefore, they are not going to be discourage by one mediocre solo.
You, on the other, most probably want to hear something very special and are working on that ONE, close to perfection, solo. I don't see any issues with that.

N.B. Practice makes perfect.
It means that the more you practice the easier (a little bit) it gets to play solos, but...
A big "but"!

If you are a 10 years or 16 years old beginner with a "brand new" brain, it's much much easier for your brain to initiate and to internalize some things (including "soloing") in comparison to an old guy, like me.
The young brain memorizes and processes, and standardizes/internalizes new things faster than my OLD brain; therefore,
DON'T be discouraged or upset that the VICTOR (Wooten) who started playing bass at age 6(!!!) is a little bit better than some other musicians like me. Just imagine what 48 years spent day and night with the bass guitar could do to almost anybody, even to those who have less talent/gift for music.

Well, not really a perfectionist. I just have a bit more pride than to stand in front of people (my band included) and throw more clams then sugar. It doesn't help that my KB and guitarist (and occasional sax) are outstanding soloists and even my mediocre worked out lines don't compare to them. "Cool lines" just don't come out of me easily and my skill basic bass skill level really isn;t good enough to produce some of the "cool" things I hear.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Well, we may be splitting hairs, but agree to disagree. Yes hard work and theory study is the path for most of us. But I do believe there are some people that just have natural instincts to play great songs/solos/lines without really understanding the underlying theory of why they work. There are prodigies that can't read a lick of music built blow us away with. On the other hand there are many of us who can work our butts off, have years of theory education and just never get very good at it. It's an art and art usually requires some innate talent to excel.

Well Bill Evans who is arguably one of the greatest jazz pianists who ever lived said in an interview that he didn't have much talent, so he had to work crazy hard to get anything out of his own playing. I'm pretty sure he was a fair judge of his own innate abilities...

I don't want to presume too much, and I know everyone is not Bill Evans, but when I hear statements like yours, it just sounds like someone looking for an escape hatch... Hopefully that's not the case. Having said all that, someone once said, "A man's gotta know his limitations..."

 

[Whousedtoplay]

There is an entire study method involved. It's not just playing chord tones. There are methods to enclose the chord tones, ways to approach them, etc. It's way more involved than it sounds on the face of it.

Yes, there are various ways to approach "soloing"; therefore, there are so many books, tutorials written, etc..., but...
Without learning those SCALES (modes) it is VERY difficult to say - LATER - "You know, the scales are not very important because we use lots of "chromatic notes" in jazz". Good, but how can I discern those picky chromatic notes without learning the scale (diatonic) tones?

 

[Spin Doctor]

Yes, there are various ways to approach "soloing"; therefore, there are so many books, tutorials written, etc..., but...
Without learning those SCALES (modes) it is VERY difficult to say - LATER - "You know, the scales are not very important because we use lots of "chromatic notes" in jazz". Good, but how can I discern those picky chromatic notes without learning the scale (diatonic) tones?

I have never once discounted the importance of scales in any of my discussion. The bottom line is that to be any good at all, you have to have knowledge of everything on some level. It's not one thing or another. It never has been and never will be.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

Well, if you still plan on playing funk, rock or blues etc, knowing how to manipulate your pentatonics up and down the neck and in various permutations is all you probably need to know. Most funk/rock bass solos are pretty much just pentatonics with a few juicy notes thrown in. This is one of my favorite pentatonic lessons.

Thank you.