Jeez Mr. Berlin!

[slugworth]

If you wanna be like Jeff, do as Jeff says and does. The irony of the music business is that you don't have to have much talent or ability to become rich, famous or successful. It seems like these days, the less one knows, the better. The
vast majority of the record buying public quit listening to
people who could actually play their instruments 30 years ago.
Just look at the charts..

Slug

 

[Squidfinger]

he does carry on a bit, but I agree with him. Sure I use tabs from the net when I'm cramming to get some tunes learned... but I usually just grab chord charts and run with it from there. I seem to remember better if I actually figure the lines.

+1

The only time I check tabs is to see what tuning a band is in. I wish chord charts were as plentiful as tabs on the net.

 

[romac]

I agree with Jeff here but I get angry when he says you can'y practice without your bass. Medical problems, of which I won't get into here, prevent me from playing my bass a lot so I rely on things like ear training at the piano, learning music theory and just listening to music. Him saying that that won't help me is a real kick in the teeth.

 

[basses55]

Personality aside..and sometimes it takes a "personality"...

IMO, he is basically right.

 

[brianrost]

I agree with Jeff here but I get angry when he says you can'y practice without your bass. I rely on things like ear training at the piano, learning music theory and just listening to music. Him saying that that won't help me is a real kick in the teeth.

No what he said (wrote actually) is you can't practice PLAYING THE BASS without a bass in your hands. Yes, you can obviously work on studying MUSIC away from the bass...but that's not practice!

This is the sort of concept that gets misrepresented. Jeff's points about tablature seem to be based on his oft-stated belief that traditional music instruction (based on standard notation) has been proven over hundreds of years while modern tab based instruction has no such track record.

To put it in my own words, no matter what your level of natural talent, you will progress fastest by studying in a traditional manner with a good teacher. In general that will not require the use of tablature.

As far as what you need to study, Jeff has said numerous times you don't need to go to school to play rock since the musicians who created the music did not go to school to do so. His suggested method (and a good one):

1. Get (any) list of the "top 100 rock albums of all time"
2. Buy those 100 CDs
3. Learn every song on every CD by ear

 

[Phil Smith]

No what he said (wrote actually) is you can't practice PLAYING THE BASS without a bass in your hands. Yes, you can obviously work on studying MUSIC away from the bass...but that's not practice!

Visualizing shifts, movements and reproducing sound while not having a bass in your hands does have a benefit. I'm sure when Berlin made this statement he probably figured it couldn't and wouldn't be challenged in the way that he meant it, but this is a process that world class athletes use to prepare to compete a the highest levels in addition to their other training.

 

[DB5]

I guess one could regard Tab as "pigeon English". Has it's place for those who are new, but shouldn't become a substitute for the real thing.

Amen Brother

 

[Captain Scarlet]

I happen to agree with Jeff's views regarding learning to read music, but I just don't like the way he relays it. As great a player as he is, I think he's going a bit far when he says he's almost never wrong when it comes to music.

I agree that many of the things he says gets misunderstood or misread, but if he would just show a little humility, I'm sure people would cut him more slack.

As it is, I really like him as a sideman, particularly his work with Bill Bruford on Kazumi Watanabe's albums.

 

[Nick man]

It looks like almost everyone agrees with Jeff.

Here's my question:
How many of you would want to jam with him after reading this?

 

[LM Bass]

Invalid Link Removed

Here is Jeff's trio on tour in Italy.
-The guy can play.

Just wanted to add that much, most of the rest has been said.

LM

 

[mnadelin]

It looks like almost everyone agrees with Jeff.

Here's my question:
How many of you would want to jam with him after reading this?

I would, because he's an incredible player. I like his direct, concise approach towards voicing his opinion. I would recommend you check him out before dismissing his credibility.

 

[Kavorka]

I would, because he's an incredible player. I like his direct, concise approach towards voicing his opinion. I would recommend you check him out before dismissing his credibility.

Fully agree! Though I couldn't keep up in a jam with Jeff. The learning experience would be incredible!

 

[brianrost]

I wish chord charts were as plentiful as tabs on the net.

If more people had notation software (and could enter the parts in standard notation) you might see it. There is a site that has just the changes to the Real Book tunes (link: http://www.realbook.us/). It's only because ASCII text is simple to enter and compact to store tab is all over the net.

For sharing music scores via the web there is an alternative to tab called ABC (link: Invalid Link Removed) which is stored as ASCII text but can be fed through translators to generate standard notation. It's popular with folk and classical musicians.

 

[Nick man]

Ive heard him, but I dont care how amazing he is. His attitude is too much for me.

 

[Little G]

I am doing an interview with Jeff Shortly

He is a very opinionated fellow but as someone else mentioned earlier he tends to be very adamant on things he can back up. Also a lot of what he says is taken out of context.

One such item is the metronome. In an interview I read somewhere he didn't say never use a metronome, he said that your playing/practicing shouldn't rely on the use of one.

He is big on the education of music especially instruments such as bass, guitar and drums which sadley still don't get much of a look in most schools. The way I see it is why shouldn't a music student be able and have the support to play an instrument such as a bass in school and play classical pieces instead of being made to play an instument such as a cello to play classical pieces.

I've no idea what the musical education system is like in the states and I may be jumping the gun but I know a few musicians who have gone to futher education such as Berklee because the education in thier countries can't support them.

 

[James Hart]

It looks like almost everyone agrees with Jeff.

Here's my question:
How many of you would want to jam with him after reading this?

in a heartbeat! The man is a great player. I'm actually thinking about doing a short stay at his school

 

[LiquidMidnight]

As always, JB says something in an interview, and everyone gets their panties in a bunch.

Does tab hold one back? Well, that depends; everyone has different goals on what they want to accomplish in music. If some kid wants to jam in his bedroom, and learn a few of his favorite Blink182 tunes, then hey, learn some tab. If someone is a serious music student who is looking to become accomplished at their instrument, then I wouldn't even dream of introducing tab to them. How do you understand the relationship between harmony and melody with tab? How do you communicate musical ideas with non-guitar playing musicians (i.e. pianist, horn players, violinist, ect.) with tab? What happens if the song you are working on seems to be out of your singer's range, so the band decides to transpose it to another key, but all your understand is tab?

 

[Nick Gann]

It looks like almost everyone agrees with Jeff.

Here's my question:
How many of you would want to jam with him after reading this?

Jam with him? Never, he'd make me sound like a cow singing its death songs through a bass amp.

However, I'd take lessons from him in a heartbeat.

 

[embellisher]

Jam with him? Never, he'd make me sound like a cow singing its death songs through a bass amp.

However, I'd take lessons from him in a heartbeat.

Me too!

I have met Jeff a couple of times. He is passionate about music, and a very opinionated guy. But a pretty nice guy, too.

I disagree with a lot of what he has said over the years, but agree 100% with regard to his opinion on tablature. It is a shortcut, gives you no instruction other than where to put your fingers for one song, and discourages ear training. If you want to learn the latest Godsmack song in 5 minutes, tab is the way to go. If you want to become an accomplished musician, it is a waste of time.

 

[sedgdog]

I studied with Jeff for a week at his Player's School. Jeff couldn't have been nicer or more supportive. I believe his strong opinions are a result of his years of experience and knowing what works and what doesn't work on the road to becoming a better musician. I also believe he is not arrogant, but very passionate about seeing people learn what is important without wasting time getting side tracked by things like tab. For instance I have done many plays and musicals. I have always been handed a combination of written notation and chord charts. I could never have done those gigs without knowing how to read notation and having the theory knowledge to interpret the chord charts. (Two of Jeff's points) My suggestion is listen to Jeff! He has already done the research for us. I'm going to spend my time doing what he says rather than wasting my practice time trying to reinvent the wheel.

All the best,
Tim