Jeff Berlin Discussing Music Ed

[Winterpegbass]

Thank you for your great musical contributions, I especially enjoy the "One of a Kind" album that you played on.

Have you written/published any bass instruction books/cds/dvds?
If not, do you plan on doing so?
Can you recommend any bass instruction books?
Which bass instruction books are part of the Player's School of Music curriculum?

Thanks!

 

[JeffBerlin]

I happen to agree w/ your views and methods on music ed. As a youngster I was told the same thing many times but I insisted I was going to be a rock star. Big mistake. Had I listened and not gone the self taught route I might be more than a mid 50's local hero now taking lessons in jazz theory and reading. Jeff's advice and some good lessons from Carol Kaye have helped me immensely in becoming a better sight reader and expanding my knowledge. I can now play and understand more of what I hear...because I hear more. I do think the lighter aproach will help tho Jeff, even tho I have always agreed and understood your stance and frustration.

The hard part for me was to hear advice that I knew was wrong. There was no way that one might improve through some of the methods that some still endorse. Now, I will only state these methods as flawed but I won't try to insist that people follow what I say. Clearly many aren't interested in doing this which quite frankly means that those who learn better will retain these skills for life, plus be amongst the handful of good players qualified to do most of the gigs. I should have thought about this in the first place, which is why I am never going to debate anybody about anything. Take what I say, don't take what I say. It is up to them!

 

[JeffBerlin]

Thanks for taking the time to share with us, Jeff. I've learned a lot about being a musician, a student and a teacher from you.
What is your opinion about learning jazz on the double bass? I consider myself primarily an electric bassist who dabbles in upright bass. Did you play DB and did it help your electric technique?

The double bass is the direct line father to the electric. Practice away. Play and learn as much jazz as you can on this instrument but only if you wish to play it. It is a different instrument than the e bass.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Hi Jeff, first of all, thanks for sharing your time and knowledge with us in this forum.

I'd like to know if you can tell us a complete method to work sight reading and to get better at it.

other question is what to practice and how to practice to get a jazz vocabulary on the instrument

and last question, how do you practice walking bass lines (I love the way you "walk") and get better (or good) at it.

thanks in advance for your time and advices

Sight reading happens at the end. To sight read, you have to learn to read. Review the pieces or exercises that you are working on until you've learned them well. Then move to the next piece and do the same. Nobody learns sight reading without learning how to read first. As an example, every time you read something in English, you are sight reading. But, you didn't get this ability until you first practiced how to read. It is the same with music.

Learning jazz is a goal-oriented project. You have to find good jazz instruction and you have to practice it. But, as with reading English, there is an end to the study of jazz walking lines or playing jazz. As I mentioned earlier, jazz is not something that I recommend to people to embrace as players. It is a hard musical style to survive in. But as an academic pursuit, there is nothing better.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Quote from last nights old thread:
(from Craig)Thanks for the myspace posts...very informative.....I am thinking a week at your school (more if I could afford it), and continue with a NYC private teacher is starting to look nice to me.

hey Jeff,
I posted last night about my college dilemma...commuting and wondering about being able to acquire the knowledge in Jazz without the college atmosphere. Being 48 yrs young...this has been a great experience, City College in NYC has a very good program, John Pattitucci is on faculty. I do notice a little bit of a prejudice towards electric bass players(such as myself)...the purists kind of look down upon the electric players(not Mr. Pattitucci). I guess I will access the situation at the end of the semester. It is really up to me, no matter what the decision is, to put the right effort and energy in the journey of learning, with good guidance!!!

They used to have the same attitude at Berklee back in the early 70's when I attended. It didn't bother me, but I did notice it. I actually admire jazz purists because they keep certain traditions alive. Once in DownBeat magazine, Charlie Haden commented: "There is no electric bass. There is only acoustic bass!"

If he still feels this way or not, I admired his dedication to principles that he believed in. They didn't hurt me nor bother me. But I did have a deep respect for his clear statements about how he felt about my instrument.

As for you, forget their attitude and get as much musical advice as you can. Acoustic bass or not, everybody recognizes a good musician no matter what instrument they are playing.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Jeff,

Thank you for your willingness to pick up the conversation again!

Would you advise a fairly new bass player to start with a short- term program at the Players School of Music, or would the 80 week course be the way to go for someone that really has the desire and discipline to learn?

Thanks,
Bryan

Music, if learned in a few weeks, is a tease. Music, if learned over time, is a permanence! 80 weeks with us, and there is little that you will ever have to worry about regarding how you play your bass. But, 10 to 40 weeks is excellent for many things. One thing is sure; forgive this bold statement, but if you come here, you will go home three times the player you are right now, and maybe even more.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Thank you for your great musical contributions, I especially enjoy the "One of a Kind" album that you played on.

Have you written/published any bass instruction books/cds/dvds?
If not, do you plan on doing so?
Can you recommend any bass instruction books?
Which bass instruction books are part of the Player's School of Music curriculum?

Thanks!

Years ago I published a chord tone book, but that was it. There are lots of great music available to practice, and so I didn't feel the need to clutter up the marketplace when good stuff is already out there.

The Players School has its own curriculum. I understand that our guitar teacher uses different books as does our drum teacher. I have a ton of sources for learning and, depending on the player, I choose what is the best. Often I just write out lessons because, I have a sort of custom fitted-type way to assign homework or give lessons. Some guys get the same stuff, and some guys don't. Not everybody fits into a mold and for this reason, I want guys to improve according to their own needs.

 

[Commreman]

Jeff -
I'm mostly a lurker on your threads, because I want to see (hear) what you have to say without getting into a pi$$ing contest with those that disagree with you.

I am primarily a rock/r&b player, but your positions based on your old columns in BP, coupled with studying with Dave LaRue for a year hipped me to the jazz studies that you advocate. In my experience, this method works, and I am constantly on the lookout for new information that I can absorb and apply. Dave was an advocate of the metronome; I couldn't approach the metronome until I had the information in my ear and under my fingers. No matter what I did then and do now, I first need to hear how the information sounds, figure out my fingerings, get comfortable, and then turn the metronome on! I guess that puts me firmly in your corner. I take time to read every day, and read the same information until I "get it." I'm currently working through a book of Paul Chambers solos - not that I will apply that information in any of the rock settings that I play in, but it merely helps me think a lot more differently, and opens other musical doors for me.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your being here. If you were to pick up writing your BP column again, combined with John Goldsby's column, the magazine would be a must read and own again!

Thanks for all you do,

Ed

 

[TapyTap]

Music, if learned in a few weeks, is a tease. Music, if learned over time, is a permanence! 80 weeks with us, and there is little that you will ever have to worry about regarding how you play your bass. But, 10 to 40 weeks is excellent for many things. One thing is sure; forgive this bold statement, but if you come here, you will go home three times the player you are right now, and maybe even more.

Thanks! 80 weeks then!!!

 

[engedi1]

Jeff -

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your being here. If you were to pick up writing your BP column again, combined with John Goldsby's column, the magazine would be a must read and own again!

Thanks for all you do,

Ed

+1 The John Goldsby column was really great. Haven't read the mag much in the last couple years though...

Thanks for starting up a new thread Jeff. Looking forward to some good material.
Do you have any particular exercises to build up right hand accuracy and technique? I find that most instruction is worried about left hand speed and technique, but that the right hand is neglected. Any thoughts appreciated. What do you consider the main challenge of pickin' the bass with two fingers, which is what I primarily do?

 

[JeffBerlin]

Jeff -
I'm mostly a lurker on your threads, because I want to see (hear) what you have to say without getting into a pi$$ing contest with those that disagree with you.

I am primarily a rock/r&b player, but your positions based on your old columns in BP, coupled with studying with Dave LaRue for a year hipped me to the jazz studies that you advocate. In my experience, this method works, and I am constantly on the lookout for new information that I can absorb and apply. Dave was an advocate of the metronome; I couldn't approach the metronome until I had the information in my ear and under my fingers. No matter what I did then and do now, I first need to hear how the information sounds, figure out my fingerings, get comfortable, and then turn the metronome on! I guess that puts me firmly in your corner. I take time to read every day, and read the same information until I "get it." I'm currently working through a book of Paul Chambers solos - not that I will apply that information in any of the rock settings that I play in, but it merely helps me think a lot more differently, and opens other musical doors for me.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your being here. If you were to pick up writing your BP column again, combined with John Goldsby's column, the magazine would be a must read and own again!

Thanks for all you do,

Ed

Goldby's column is one of the columns that I like. This is a smart guy about music.

 

[TimK]

Nothing defines harmony as clearly as a chord. Chord tones are simply the root, 3rd, 5th, and 7th of the chord. There are around ten, give or take, chord types that mostly cover all of contemporary music. Playing the chord tones in inversions all over the bass is a great way to establish an understanding of chords. They don't make for good walking lines, but for academic soloing, they are fantastic. Up and down the neck is the way to go, also in different patterns because this re-establishes using the same information in different ways.

Learning all chords arpeggios and their extensions in all inversions all around the neck. Is this what you mean?

 

[JeffBerlin]

+1 The John Goldsby column was really great. Haven't read the mag much in the last couple years though...

Thanks for starting up a new thread Jeff. Looking forward to some good material.
Do you have any particular exercises to build up right hand accuracy and technique? I find that most instruction is worried about left hand speed and technique, but that the right hand is neglected. Any thoughts appreciated. What do you consider the main challenge of pickin' the bass with two fingers, which is what I primarily do?

There is no such a thing as effective right hand vs left hand exercises. Besides, there is nothing wrong with your right hand. There may be something wrong in how you use it.

Reading music, or playing music requires two hands in coordination. The more that you practice music, especially written music, then both hands will have a reason to act in sequence. Avoid right hand vs left hand exercises if they pop up from time to time. These are like right leg vs left leg walking exercises. Silly, right?

 

[JeffBerlin]

Learning all chords arpeggios and their extensions in all inversions all around the neck. Is this what you mean?

Not extentions. Pure chord tones. Up and down in inversions and over jazz tune chord changes. You see, jazz is a music that one cannot fake. But rock and other styles can even be employable styles if you learn the right licks and a few songs. Chord tones purify the harmony and they sound great. There s a guy named Phil Mann from England who came to The Players School. I gave him some chord tone stuff and he was blown away. He took this idea back to England and introduced it to a school that he is working in. Vicky, my wife, told me that she received an email from Phil saying that the concept is knocking people out over there. Such a simple thing and many bass teachers don't know about it.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Thanks! 80 weeks then!!!

Trust me! You won't be sorry! See you then. P.S. Don't prepare, don't do extra practicing to get ready, don't sweat anything. Just show up at the door and do the work that I give you. Do it fast or slow, it doesn't matter. If you get your lessons and you need more time to work on it, perfect! If you get your lesson and you ate it up, then here's some more. Just do the work and you won't be sorry. Ever!

 

[TapyTap]

Jeff,

I am curious as to how you arrange ensembles at the Players School. With students at so many different levels in their musical abilities, how do organize a live playing situation?

Bryan

 

[pedro]

Jeff thanks for your comments. I've always found them informative and I'm hard pressed to think of an occassion when I've disagreed with you, albeit my love of all things Jack Bruce, and your comments regarding fretless bass come close.

I was curious if your school if accredited?

 

[JeffBerlin]

Jeff,

I am curious as to how you arrange ensembles at the Players School. With students at so many different levels in their musical abilities, how do organize a live playing situation?

Bryan

It can be a little mish moshy sometimes. But, everybody gets good players to accompany them because it is easy to divide up groups according to their playing ability. Often I'm either the pianist or the guitar player, if there aren't these guys around (I'm a pretty good player on both instruments). But we make sure that each guys reads, even if they have never done it before, and each guy solos even if they have never done that either. The biggest thing that I emphasize to the guys is DON'T BE ARTISTS! Be correct! It is a hard concept for some guys to grasp because they are always told to be emotional in what they work on, even their practice sometimes. Nonsense! Emotion is automatic. With some guys, it's almost impossible to turn it off. They should play the right notes at the right time, even if they play only one note in their solos. You have to begin SOMEWHERE! 100% of our guys improve in their playing principle via these ensembels because they are asked to only try to play a smidgen more than they already can do. This doesn't scare guys as they bang around trying to figure out the right notes. If they can't figure them out, then I tell them what they are. They can handle this experience because I see guys shaking at the prospect of making a mistake. As quickly as I can, I tell them to cut that out, make the mistakes that they were supposed to be making and fix them over time. Nobody, repeat NOBODY walks away from learning this way without a significant musical increase.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Okay Dr. Jeff - I have a question:

I grew up on piano, moving to bass when I was 15 (back in '76!) - Most of the kids I played with in high school and shortly thereafter had a similar story... We may have learned to hate "piano lessons", but we all had a good basic grasp of theory.

It seems to me now that fewer and fewer kids are being brought along in this manner. When I was teaching bass, I found *very* few kids who ever had a single music lesson outside of the lukewarm stuff the public schools offer - - And they struggled.

The lesson I have taken away from this is that, for kids, piano is the right instrument to start - it allows a good visualization of the staff, is easy to play (as in to at least make a note happen, not to play music!) and is often a snappy piece of furniture.

Thoughts? If not Piano, then what would *you* suggest for a child (6-8 yrs old)?

thanks

 

[TimK]

Not extentions. Pure chord tones. Up and down in inversions and over jazz tune chord changes. You see, jazz is a music that one cannot fake. But rock and other styles can even be employable styles if you learn the right licks and a few songs. Chord tones purify the harmony and they sound great. There s a guy named Phil Mann from England who came to The Players School. I gave him some chord tone stuff and he was blown away. He took this idea back to England and introduced it to a school that he is working in. Vicky, my wife, told me that she received an email from Phil saying that the concept is knocking people out over there. Such a simple thing and many bass teachers don't know about it.

Got it! Time to bust out the old real book. I have a minor degree in Jazz Studies but it has been several years since I played through any of those tunes. I used that education to get the gigs I have, but they have been mostly rock/pop cover band gigs. Now I'm in an original group and am repsonible for creating interesting and musical parts again instead of just playing boogie oogie oogie correctly off the record. Time to dig in again.

Now if I could just get my kids to take care of them selves and not worry about my full time job I could put in the practice time I want! HA! I'll endure.

Thanks