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Jeff Berlin discussing music education part 3

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Hi Roy,

I've read in a few posts that you use the David Baker etudes book (for vol. 5 and 6 of Aebersold play-along?), I'm curious about it! Is it etudes based on Parker solos or based on the changes? I searched for it on the net but can't find it anywhere!

edit. Just saw that it's based on the changes, sorry!

That's the one. David wrote etudes based on the changes rather than Parker's material. They are really dense harmonically and he loves his diminished patterns-classic David Baker.
If it's in print, Jamey Aebersold has it-try www.jazzbooks.com and see if it's there.
I just saw that it appears to be only available in Eb at this point. I might substitute one of Bob Mintzer's etude books (there's an easier one for Blues and a more challenging one for Jazz and Fusion). They are still available in bass clef.
 
Hi all

As you know I am currently studing here at the school with Jeff. I've had great lessons here with Jeff, always pushing me, but today's absolutely fried my brain. Completely.

It lasted only a few minutes and I have at least a few months work to do - all from a single page, with 4 bars of written music!

It's a Charlie Banacos lesson, but Jeff has added a twist and is making me take these particular lines through all 12 keys and 10 different chord scales (major, minor, dominant 7, m7b5, dim7, aug7, aug maj7, min maj7, lydian7, lydian7 #4).

:eek:

I'll see you all in a couple of months, I guess....I'll be in the woodshed! Awesome.

I thought Jeff didn't believe in chord scales.
 
Thanks Roy, just found it there. They only have Eb version, so I'll have to transcribe!

You can actually convert the Eb version to bass clef by changing some of the accidentals. I'll go back and try to remember how that's done and let you know-there's so much Bass Clef stuff out there these days that I've not had to do that in years.....
 
Hi all

As you know I am currently studing here at the school with Jeff. I've had great lessons here with Jeff, always pushing me, but today's absolutely fried my brain. Completely.

It lasted only a few minutes and I have at least a few months work to do - all from a single page, with 4 bars of written music!

It's a Charlie Banacos lesson, but Jeff has added a twist and is making me take these particular lines through all 12 keys and 10 different chord scales (major, minor, dominant 7, m7b5, dim7, aug7, aug maj7, min maj7, lydian7, lydian7 #4).

:eek:

I'll see you all in a couple of months, I guess....I'll be in the woodshed! Awesome.

Pete can handle the exercise that I gave him. Frankly, it isn't that hard at all, but it requires a bit of attention to practice lots of specific bits of musical perfection. The trick in learning is to practice. Everything whatsoever that you wish to get out of the music that you practice will come to you if you practice everyday. There is no need whatsover, without exception, to memorize anything. Ever! Never! With no exception! Academica doesn't require it and when teachers tell you to memorize your homework, they forgot that memorization is automatically built into whatever it is that you are practicing at that time! The goal is to learn, not memorize. Big difference!

Another thing is to not try and seek out if you have learned anything from your practicing with too much attention on the result. This is not only a bad idea, but it is a frustratingly bad idea because you won't see the improvement in your playing, not until you are organically ready to improve. Then all your work will manifest itself into a steadily improving player. Secondly, some guys practice something today and "get it", but then tomorrow, they play the same music and make mistakes and can't figure out why they didn't repeat the excellence that they exhibited yesterday. The answer is, you weren't supposed to get it today if you didn't get it today. Playing improvement comes when it comes, not when you want it to!

Music never gives up its secrets according to your plan. It gives up the magic that it contains when it is good and ready to show up in your day. Example: one guy found a nugget at Sutter's Mill in 1849, and thousands went broke trying to accomplishg the same thing. Nuggets are really, really hard to find. But, blast the earth out of the ground, grind it up and you can find the gold that is hidden there over a long time of mining in the dirt.

Rock and blues education always produces "one guy" who claims musical success via studying those methods in an academic setting. But, most cannot, and will never make the same claim. Metronomes have helped a guy or two out with their time (I even question THIS number). But, most of you will never find the improvement because time doesn't come from a clicking box. What am I saying? That if you wish to learn, then you have to fry your brain a little bit like Pete Weil is doing. He is from Scotland and this is his third trip back to Florida for some musical academic infusion (when you "want it" as badly as Pete does, then you go after it. Pete is my kind of guy because he wants it and he is working for it.)

Pete's lesson is a simple Charlie Banacos lesson that I innovated. The thing that fried Pete's brain was because he had to think about learning in a new way. The lessons itself is only four bars long. This means that he will learn the same things in a lot of different ways, which is THE BEST way to learn your lessons. There is nothing like learning a specific principle in lots of ways. This supports the learning in narrow, specific methodology. One of the criticisms that I used to get was that I was considered narrow minded. Lucky for my students that I am! They all, 100% have improved by dealing with narrow, specific, non-broad oriented bits of musical perfection. It is really really hard to improve via an "everything works" mentality. If everything actually works, then why do so many players have trouble playing well. Practice "The Good Stuff" and you will, 100% without exception, improve in music. But pay for lessons in slap, rock, blues, and tap, and you will stay exactly where you are because music is not the core of your lessons; finger approach to playing is.
 
I thought Jeff didn't believe in chord scales.

I don't believe a lot in practicing scales, (they DO exist and so it might be good to know how they work. I just woundn't practice them the way that a lot of teachers tell you to practice them). They are a weak way to examine tonality. But, if you use the scales and define the chords that each scale note will contain, according to the original phrase that started off each individual exercise, then you are using chords, inversions, harmony, transposition, ascending and descending your neck in harmonically perfect ways based on chords built on scale notes. Scales themselves are a Humbug!
 
Pete may be suffering but I envy him! Wish I could be there.

He isactually quite excited about the homework that I gave to him. I used to get the same sensation when Charlie used to send me my homework. I actually was ecstatic when his package used to arrive. There was never a single time that i opened his envelop and didn't feel like a kid opening his present on his birthday. Pete has that same sentimentality. You can always tell a guy who is dedicated to music,; it is all they can do not to scream with pleasure about the lessons that they are about to get.
 
He isactually quite excited about the homework that I gave to him. I used to get the same sensation when Charlie used to send me my homework. I actually was ecstatic when his package used to arrive. There was never a single time that i opened his envelop and didn't feel like a kid opening his present on his birthday. Pete has that same sentimentality. You can always tell a guy who is dedicated to music,; it is all they can do not to scream with pleasure about the lessons that they are about to get.

Oh I'm sure that's true. I'm just jealous, sitting here at my desk job I'd much rather be there!
 
Oh I'm sure that's true. I'm just jealous, sitting here at my desk job I'd much rather be there!

Same here.

I love music, and I love a challenge. I'm hoping that my teacher starts to really lay it on me. Make me work. Drive me. Push me. The most fun is when you have to think outside the box. Expand the way you think about a subject.

I will start my summer "slush fund" job in March. I'm going to save up my money and do my best to get to the one week course at Players School. Maybe by that time, I'll have much of the fundamental stuff down pat so I can get the most from Jeff's lessons.
 
Pete may be suffering but I envy him! Wish I could be there.

I'm very happy. Just a little mindblown. But absolutely delighted! When Jeff gave me today's lesson, I was really blown away. I think that has come across.

I'm doing an awful lot of harmonising/working out of things right now, but tomorrow I'll be able to knuckle down to practicing. As I said before, it looks like this will take a while. As I enjoy practicing/exploring the istrument, though, I'm positively :hyper:.
 
I'm very happy. Just a little mindblown. But absolutely delighted! When Jeff gave me today's lesson, I was really blown away. I think that has come across.

I'm doing an awful lot of harmonising/working out of things right now, but tomorrow I'll be able to knuckle down to practicing. As I said before, it looks like this will take a while. As I enjoy practicing/exploring the istrument, though, I'm positively :hyper:.

Hi Pete, I too, wish I were there instead of at my dull day/desk job. When you say harmonizing, do you mean that you are writing out all of the various harmonic options on paper?
 
Man it's so hard to get someone to understand that we're trying to teach people how to fish. I got the "You need to try to do some Jaco lessons, reggae lessons, or funk lessons." Teen Town in particular was mentioned. Huh?

Once again this is a situation where band instruments and orchestral instruments are taught. The level of teaching guitar and bass should be held to the same standards. Why is this not so?

I've got a great retention rate, and a 100 percent without fail quote. Every student who has been motivated enough to learn the basic ways music work and practice these lessons goes on to learn the style of music they like to play without the need for that type 'lesson'. The ratio of students who do this, in fact seems higher than those who just want to do Green Day or the flavor of the day. Most of those kids never even bother with that.

I freely admit if a student liked a Reggae song and couldn't work it out, I am not beyond using a part of lesson where they count it out and learn to write the rythm. This strikes me as musical information.

Regarding the rock and roll camps. It's not the academics that strike me as so wrong, How UNrock and roll is it to do a camp? The beauty of rock is when guys who may or may not know so much about music, through sheer will and on their own, manage to make some art, some of it quite good.
 
Hi Pete, I too, wish I were there instead of at my dull day/desk job. When you say harmonizing, do you mean that you are writing out all of the various harmonic options on paper?

Yes, exactly so. I sat down and worked out all of the chords related to each of the parent scales for the chords I mentioned.

So:

Cmaj7 - Dmin7 - Emin7 - Fmaj7 etc. for Maj
Cmaj(min7) - Dmin7 - Ebmaj7(#5) - F7 etc. for Maj(min7)
Caug7 - D7 - Emaj7(b5) - F#min7b5 etc. for Aug7


And so on. A 'road map' for practicing on. I'll get them double checked later by Jeff or Matt (harmony teacher), make sure they are all correct.
 
Yes, exactly so. I sat down and worked out all of the chords related to each of the parent scales for the chords I mentioned.

So:

Cmaj7 - Dmin7 - Emin7 - Fmaj7 etc. for Maj
Cmaj(min7) - Dmin7 - Ebmaj7(#5) - F7 etc. for Maj(min7)
Caug7 - D7 - Emaj7(b5) - F#min7b5 etc. for Aug7


And so on. A 'road map' for practicing on. I'll get them double checked later by Jeff or Matt (harmony teacher), make sure they are all correct.

cool. Thanks for the clarification. great exercise
 
Yes, exactly so. I sat down and worked out all of the chords related to each of the parent scales for the chords I mentioned.

So:

Cmaj7 - Dmin7 - Emin7 - Fmaj7 etc. for Maj
Cmaj(min7) - Dmin7 - Ebmaj7(#5) - F7 etc. for Maj(min7)
Caug7 - D7 - Emaj7(b5) - F#min7b5 etc. for Aug7


And so on. A 'road map' for practicing on. I'll get them double checked later by Jeff or Matt (harmony teacher), make sure they are all correct.
so is that building the chords based on the modes of the major scale,then chords based on the scale of the dorian mode etc
 
Man it's so hard to get someone to understand that we're trying to teach people how to fish. I got the "You need to try to do some Jaco lessons, reggae lessons, or funk lessons." Teen Town in particular was mentioned. Huh?

.

The key to teaching any of the Jaco stuff, IMO, is dealing with what he's doing harmonically. If I teach "Teen Town" for example, I'm not about the business of teaching the bassist to imitate it-"Polly Wanna Cracker"-but to understand why it sounds the way that it does.
That's an interesting piece of music-Jaco goes back and forth from being a bass player to being a horn player in about every other phrase. There's one that's virtually copped from Chuck Rainey's bridge on "Rock Steady" (every Funk bassist in 1973 played that lick somewhere) and then there will be one that starts on the 3rd of the chord and only winds up on the Root at the end of the phrase. After the key change there are Pentatonic Scale licks off of the 9th and the tritone substitution that are similar to the pentatonic reharmonizations I posted a while ago. The harmony is plateau modal Dominant/13th chords-Jaco uses something similar on Punk Jazz.
I won't shy away from teaching a popular bass anthem-but I won't teach one by rote. If you can explain to a student WHY the line sounds like it does and how they can use those devices in their own playing you've taught them to fish, not just given them one of Jaco's old Filet of Fish Sandwiches from McDonalds....
 
The key to teaching any of the Jaco stuff, IMO, is dealing with what he's doing harmonically. If I teach "Teen Town" for example, I'm not about the business of teaching the bassist to imitate it-"Polly Wanna Cracker"-but to understand why it sounds the way that it does.
That's an interesting piece of music-Jaco goes back and forth from being a bass player to being a horn player in about every other phrase. There's one that's virtually copped from Chuck Rainey's bridge on "Rock Steady" (every Funk bassist in 1973 played that lick somewhere) and then there will be one that starts on the 3rd of the chord and only winds up on the Root at the end of the phrase. After the key change there are Pentatonic Scale licks off of the 9th and the tritone substitution that are similar to the pentatonic reharmonizations I posted a while ago. The harmony is plateau modal Dominant/13th chords-Jaco uses something similar on Punk Jazz.
I won't shy away from teaching a popular bass anthem-but I won't teach one by rote. If you can explain to a student WHY the line sounds like it does and how they can use those devices in their own playing you've taught them to fish, not just given them one of Jaco's old Filet of Fish Sandwiches from McDonalds....

you are correct but that was not the context I was being told to use it!

You see our situations are quite different too. The bulk of my students are middle schoolers. My life's work seems to have been steered to trying to groom kids so they may go to the likes of you and Jeff, who teach older kids or young adults up to geezers. I'm going to get the kids who are going to be exposed to this stuff for the first time. They've had no exposure at all and the pressure is to send them home and happy with 'Hells Bells' (but I have been known to use Crazy Train to teach guitar players ledger lines). These kids are quite capable of learning chords and the inversions up the neck and they'll do the work if exposed to it.
 
you are correct but that was not the context I was being told to use it!
Was it requested by a student because it's "cool" and he just wants to learn the notes? That would be wrong-like doing a series of lessons based on all the songs in Guitar Hero or something with no explanation. I get what you mean.
 
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