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Jeff Berlin discussing music education part 3

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Thanks for the heads up Roy.

I looked up the Nashville Jazz Workshop. I might make a trip over one day this week and get some details.

$200 for 12 hours of class is reasonable. Looks like they have TONS of classes.
 
Thanks for the heads up Roy.

I looked up the Nashville Jazz Workshop. I might make a trip over one day this week and get some details.

$200 for 12 hours of class is reasonable. Looks like they have TONS of classes.

They're primarily open in the late afternoon/early evening hours. I'm sure they'd be happy to answer your questions.
 
I just downloaded part 2 of Bela Fleck's African project (for now, only available from his website).

Not sure if you guys have heard of this or know anything about it, but it's really an amazing thing. Basically, he traveled to Africa and played with some of the best musicians over there. It's quite exhilarating to listen to, as these guys are truly masters of their instruments. He made a documentary about the trip, and made an album, too.



To the pros, have you guys ever considered doing/done something like this? I think it's amazing to be able to listen to someone who is well-versed in western music play with master musicians from other cultures but I don't really know of anything other than Bela's little journey that has done this.

BAh, I just had to get that out! I can't contain the joy I'm getting from this album!
 
I think it's amazing to be able to listen to someone who is well-versed in western music play with master musicians from other cultures but I don't really know of anything other than Bela's little journey that has done this.


Speaking of "East Meets West" fusion, a couple come to mind. Shawn Lane and Jonas Hellborg have played with Indian percussionists. Jonas Hellborg has played with Middle Eastern musicians. Also, there is an oud player named Rabih Abou-Khalil who has played and recorded with jazz musicians including bassist Steve Swallow.

But I think Bela Fleck (and the Flecktones) have done this more than anyone I've heard of.
 
Hi Jeff,

First of all can I say a huge thank you for giving up your time to come on here, I'm absolutely loving this thread!

Just had a question about the chord tone exercise. If I'm playing Cmaj7th would I play it ascending and then descending. Or do I just do the ascending exercises first in all keys? Or does it matter?!

Hopefully this makes sense! Thanks again for your time.
 
We're in an interesting position at Belmont-we offer a degree in "Commercial Music" so that covers the entire gamut. A student might play a Level 42 piece, a Bebop Standard on upright, An Alain Caron piece, and a R and B standard (say, Everything is Everything with Willie Weeks bass solo) on a Junior or Senior Recital. I've even had students play "Joe Frazier" and "Bach" :)
We're pretty serious about keeping our instruction based around Jazz Harmony, Improv, and marketable skills like sightreading (Jamerson's good for that because unless you're reading Zappa scores those same syncopations occur over and over again, only less so because they've been "dumbed down" by arrangers in Pop and R and B). I just graded a guitar student's senior recital that included Liquid Tension Experiment tunes and "All the Things You Are".
One of the most interesting things that happened to me as a young student at NTSU was that the program was SO Straight-ahead Jazz oriented that I would routinely send bass players who were in the higher Lab Bands (in the 70s that was the Caste system there, starting with the 1:00 O'Clock and going down to the 10:00 O'Clock band) as subs only to be told by the Contractors/Bandleaders in Dallas, "Please don't send that guy again-his electric sound is terrible, his feel is funny, and he doesn't know any current tunes!" The program was SO Jazz-oriented that all they taught or encouraged at the time was Upright Bass. The successful players there became successful at what worked in the "bubble" of the Jazz Program, but when they went into the Commercial Sector, trouble.
So-I teach Slap, Motown, Standards, Improv, Charlie Parker solo transcriptions, transcriptions of current bassists and other musicians like Chick Corea, Pat Martino and Clifford Brown, have the students do their OWN transcribing, Dotzauer Cello etudes, Bach Violin Partitas, Upright Doubling, Nashville Number System and session techniques (we have to often compose a part that supports the singer, creates the arrangement, and locks the Rhythm Section together in very specific styles in 10-15 minutes or less), Joe Diorio's intervallic approach, Slominsky, you name it. I look as my work as a Bass Teacher as a vocational instructor, much like some of my friends who taught at BIT in the '80s (the late Jim Lacefield, Jeff, Steve Bailey, Alex Sklarevski and others). I want people to graduate who are employable, but more importantly I want them to learn how to learn. As the tides of the Music Biz change, players who learn how to learn can adapt. That leads to long, prosperous careers in this really unstable business.
FWIW, I've advised more than one student to attend the Player's School of Music (either an Intensive or longer courses) BEFORE they come to Belmont. I think Jeff's approach guarantees good students who will become Musical Winners.

My problem with most school classes is that I feel that they invented curriculum just so that they would have something to teach. I still see practiclly all classes as being performance oriented, not learing-how-to-play-music-and-your-instrument oriented. This is a big problem with music ed; they have to teach SOMETHING.

But, I don't subscribe to this. I don't believe that one needs to teach "something". I think that one should teach "quality", academically proven musical perfection. Bravo Charlie Banacos! Bravo Herb Pomeroy Bravo Mick Goodrick. Bravo any teacher who keeps it narrow, to the point and specific each and every week. And Bravo all those who follow in the footsteps of guys who teach great music, not those who teach a little jazz, rock, blues, trying to hit the target by shooting musical buckshot. Performance lessons don't make it because they insist that you do something before you have actually learned how.
 
I believe he's still playing, mostly at BB King's these days. I played the Clarksville River Stages with Stan Lassiter and Dale Armstrong last September (talk about some Old School Fusion :)) and he and his band played right after us. They fairly well smoked-great bass player!

People are silly if they poo poo any style of music. If you love it, then listen to it.
 
Roy, are you aware of any school here in Nashville that teaches theory, but not as part of a four year degree program? I have a college degree, and don't need another one. I just want to study music.

I'd love to sit and pick your brain. God only knows what I'd learn just from the stories you could tell.

Don't pick his brain. Practice his exercises. Don't go to a school if a great teacher is around. Charlie Banacos changed lives because he knew more about music than anyone else did. Find a teacher and take lessons.
 
Thanks for the heads up Roy.

I looked up the Nashville Jazz Workshop. I might make a trip over one day this week and get some details.

$200 for 12 hours of class is reasonable. Looks like they have TONS of classes.

Make sure that that assign reading, and some academic principles not related to bass every lessons. If you are practicing musically great stuff, then you found a great place to study. Let me know how it goes with the lessons and what they assign to you. I am always interested to hear if there is a great music school out there.
 
Speaking of "East Meets West" fusion, a couple come to mind. Shawn Lane and Jonas Hellborg have played with Indian percussionists. Jonas Hellborg has played with Middle Eastern musicians. Also, there is an oud player named Rabih Abou-Khalil who has played and recorded with jazz musicians including bassist Steve Swallow.

But I think Bela Fleck (and the Flecktones) have done this more than anyone I've heard of.

I once played with an Italian from Brooklyn and a Black guy from Aruba!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Hi Jeff,

First of all can I say a huge thank you for giving up your time to come on here, I'm absolutely loving this thread!

Just had a question about the chord tone exercise. If I'm playing Cmaj7th would I play it ascending and then descending. Or do I just do the ascending exercises first in all keys? Or does it matter?!

Hopefully this makes sense! Thanks again for your time.

I noticed that too. I also noticed you have to think differently if you isolate the ascending and descending patterns from each other. Previously I've always done an exercise ascending and descending at one time.

Two of the exercises in the article I've never done before. They required an awful lot of thought. Is this to keep everything in managable chunks?
 
Well, there are a lot of institutions that offer performance degrees. Are you suggesting that there should be no performance aspects when seeking a higher music education (specifically, music school)?

Pretty much, if the performance classes don't provide what they state that should be providing to students! You can learn more with one decent private lesson from a Charlie Banacos than you can with a 10 week performance class of non-qualified-for-academics performance classes. The good classes and the good teachers who teach them know exactly what I am talking about, by the way!

Jazz is the one exception because jazz requires pure understanding of notes and how to find them on the bass. The performance classes in a jazz ensemble are designed to represent music in front of you on the music stand. This gives reason to perform, at least to justify the money that you spent to get into this class.

But, rock and blues performance classes are built on a non-reality of acquiring something after you attend these classes. The impression is that you will improve musically so that you can at least gig at some level and improve in rock by studying it. Both are mostly false and, yes, I pretty much dismiss most performance classes if they do not make sure that music itself is the reason to perform in a paid-for academic setting.
 
Hi Jeff,

First of all can I say a huge thank you for giving up your time to come on here, I'm absolutely loving this thread!

Just had a question about the chord tone exercise. If I'm playing Cmaj7th would I play it ascending and then descending. Or do I just do the ascending exercises first in all keys? Or does it matter?!

Hopefully this makes sense! Thanks again for your time.

It makes perfet sense. Good question!

You should be eventually be able to play the chord tones up and down the neck, Most bass players can ascend a neck with little problem. But, going down that neck seems to be a little more difficult. The great thing about academic studies is that they always, without fail, with not a single exception anywhere world wide, will show you where you made your mistakes. Frankly, this is a great thing; you don't have to wonder what to practice or how to do it. If you are clamming the parts, then your playing and/or musical deficiencies are clear to see. Your job is to simply practice them slowly, out of time until you feel comfortable with the exercises. It is THAT simple to improve. But, you need a good teacher or a good school to make 100% sure that you are practicing "The Good Stuff", "The Perfect Stuff" "The Irrefutably Necessary Stuff".

The reason that I am so down on parts of the music academic system is that they have taken the idea of teaching music only to a level of a business, a functional leve, and made this attractive to potential students. It is the same thing with a lot of bass players; they only wish to learn exactly that much music where they can play a little bit. Frankly, this agreement of low musical goals from the bass players and the low musical academia from the educational community is a win-win. The blind are leading the blind, and the blind are totally happy about it. Just not me, and so I advice people to wake up and be more serious.

Frankly, I hope that some teachers read me and decide to improve what they offer to students. If they do this, they THEY, not me, will lift the music scene in this country right off of its back.
 
It makes perfet sense. Good question!

You should be eventually be able to play the chord tones up and down the neck, Most bass players can ascend a neck with little problem. But, going down that neck seems to be a little more difficult. The great thing about academic studies is that they always, without fail, with not a single exception anywhere world wide, will show you where you made your mistakes. Frankly, this is a great thing; you don't have to wonder what to practice or how to do it. If you are clamming the parts, then your playing and/or musical deficiencies are clear to see. Your job is to simply practice them slowly, out of time until you feel comfortable with the exercises. It is THAT simple to improve. But, you need a good teacher or a good school to make 100% sure that you are practicing "The Good Stuff", "The Perfect Stuff" "The Irrefutably Necessary Stuff".

The reason that I am so down on parts of the music academic system is that they have taken the idea of teaching music only to a level of a business, a functional leve, and made this attractive to potential students. It is the same thing with a lot of bass players; they only wish to learn exactly that much music where they can play a little bit. Frankly, this agreement of low musical goals from the bass players and the low musical academia from the educational community is a win-win. The blind are leading the blind, and the blind are totally happy about it. Just not me, and so I advice people to wake up and be more serious.

Frankly, I hope that some teachers read me and decide to improve what they offer to students. If they do this, they THEY, not me, will lift the music scene in this country right off of its back.

Thanks Jeff,

I've been playing them ascending and descending one chord at a time, eg. Cmaj7th - I go as far as E (21st fret G string) and then descend through the inversions, hope that's the right way! I'm also working on the last set of lessons that I received from Charlie Banacos, so between the two of those I'm kept very busy!
 
Frankly, I hope that some teachers read me and decide to improve what they offer to students. If they do this, they THEY, not me, will lift the music scene in this country right off of its back.

Your wish is granted. I've been doing this a long time.

When one starts out teaching it can be relatively easy to stay the course as you prescribe. There are LOTS of pressures to deviate over the years though. "Your job is to sell books." something I've been told. ( also think who may get more students, the guys who's shredding or the chord melody player) I'm patently NOT the shredder!

A couple years ago I thought enough of this, threw out any bad method books I was using, stuck to my guns and drew on what I got from the good teachers I had and years of personal experience. It's nice to have someone out there blowing the horn, thanks Jeff.

Truth is many of the kids find this stuff interesting. Some kids are finding there way into jazz band etc through the back door. Also I get kids who are in marching band and playing guitar (or bass) on the side. They can apply what they've learned in that guitar lesson on their horn.
 
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