• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Jeff Berlin discussing music education part 3

Status
Not open for further replies.
#101
When playing my fretless, as I have been doing a lot of recently, my amateur fretless technique often yields endless notes ;)


Jeff,

I admit I am not that familar with your music (but I have known of your name for a long time). But I have to say that I really appreciate you taking time out of your busy life to communicate with the rest of us in this virtual world. I'll make sure I take the time to look into your aural contributions to the world as well.



I listen to Jazz and some classical, but I have more experience playing reggae than anything else. While reggae is extremely basic when it somes to harmony- I have really learned that just a few notes played correctly can sound like a lot more than it really is (at least to me). It has taught me the importance of phrasing and rythmic variation, as well the importance of proper note duration- to me that is huge part of where the groove is. Besides being really fun to play, and play along with- i need to move into more challenging music than reggae to develop myself further.

But I've just gotten back into playing bass..... after a 6 year period of almost zero playing. After the past 3 months I have been playing nearly every night (after the kiddies are put to bed) sometimes for hours and hours at a time. I am now ready to really learn some theory that i never really learned from the beginning 16 years ago.

I've began learning to read standard notation, again sort of. I played DB in my high school orchestra but really just sort of fumbled through it. Usually if you don't start with band or orchestra in this area by grade 7 there is not more chance for an "in". But after learning how to poorly read and poorly play the DB over the summer in between grades 9-10 i was let an.

Anyways I am sort of starting fresh- but with some experience under my belt- this time, as well as the knowledge/understanding that I don't really know very much at all. My philosophy degree helped with that understanding.

So far I feel as though I have progressed pretty quickly in my sight reading studies. I just began to get hung up a little bit when I hit the 16 note studies in my MI Music Reading for Bass book. I'll keep on it though.

Any suggestions/materials for learning how to better read 16th note rythms would be great?

I would really like to get my hands on some fun sheet music that it at my level. I am still challenged by reading rythmic variations the most, and I have not really gotten into reading keys with numberous sharps or flats. Suggestions for sheet music would be great.

Ryan
 
#102
JeffBerlin said:
Not microtones, but fully represented pitch. A middle C is different tha a C above it or below it. It is a totally different note which is why, the truth is, there are somethin like 90 (give or take) pitches that are usable in music. It doesn't matter if this C or that C share the same name. They still aren't the same note.
Click to expand...

True, but then again the context of my original post was regarding a beginner wondering if they would ever be able to have good ears. In terms of a beginner starting off learning easy basslines and such, I think "there are only so many notes and chords" just means that once they get their feet wet a bit, they'll start to recognize the different combinations of intervals.

You know, like how when my cell phone charges, I recognize it as the same interval at the start of Chick Corea's "Captain Marvel" :)
 
#103
Frankly, though, we're one day before Fat Tuesday and I'd rather be at the Camellia Grill and then slide over to the Maple Leaf and hear Jon Cleary and the Absolute Monster Gentlemen.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Stacey Mitchart is still around. I know the blues is poo poo'ed around here, but man, love to hear guy play.
 
#104
bassy7 said:
I would really like to get my hands on some fun sheet music that it at my level. I am still challenged by reading rythmic variations the most, and I have not really gotten into reading keys with numberous sharps or flats. Suggestions for sheet music would be great.

Ryan
Click to expand...

Try the book "Standing in the shadows of Motown." lots of great Jamerson lines and a challenge to learn and play.

as far as reading 16th notes- my guess is that jeff would say, to play them out of time, but counting while you play ie...
1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 4e&a etc... but I dont want to put words into Jeff's mouth
 
#106
chadhargis said:
Somehow this sounds like a trick question. I've read that there are twelve:

A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#

That question is too easy for me to get the right answer. So, what's the trick?
Click to expand...

No trick! The notes that follow or preced your list are not the same notes. Example, The first two notes of "Over the Rainbow" are not the same note. They are octaves, and octave notes are not the same not, even if they share the same name.
 
#107
bassy7 said:
I just began to get hung up a little bit when I hit the 16 note studies in my MI Music Reading for Bass book. I'll keep on it though.

Any suggestions/materials for learning how to better read 16th note rythms would be great?
Click to expand...

The way to become clear about any music that hangs you up is to read it slowly, count slowly (1 e and a, 2 e and a,) and review the work. P.s Nobody gets better as a player or a musician by learning a lesson well. Nobody! But you get better by learning a thousand lessons well, out of time, counting if needs be, reviewing, and then moving on.
 
#108
TimK said:
Try the book "Standing in the shadows of Motown." lots of great Jamerson lines and a challenge to learn and play.

as far as reading 16th notes- my guess is that jeff would say, to play them out of time, but counting while you play ie...
1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 4e&a etc... but I dont want to put words into Jeff's mouth
Click to expand...

Read what I wrote above Tim. You nailed it!

Learning has so little to do with playing that they practically are as different as apples and oranges. They simply do not relate. For this reason, many guys here can't play well and probably never will until they recognize that learning how to play takes a different bit of effort than playing itself. It is guaranteed that everybody, musically talented or not, can become better players if they learn how to play, but the steps that one takes to accomplish this determine the outcome.
 
#109
TimK said:
Try the book "Standing in the shadows of Motown." lots of great Jamerson lines and a challenge to learn and play.

as far as reading 16th notes- my guess is that jeff would say, to play them out of time, but counting while you play ie...
1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 4e&a etc... but I dont want to put words into Jeff's mouth
Click to expand...

Good stuff, but not the only stuff, and not really the best stuff. Why? Because these are transribed bass parts, not melodic, harmonically meaningful, and tonally significant music. They are root oriented bass parts, good for certain reading, but, not really going to do a whole lot for one's playing in the long-run.
 
#111
JeffBerlin said:
Read what I wrote above Tim. You nailed it!

Learning has so little to do with playing that they practically are as different as apples and oranges. They simply do not relate. For this reason, many guys here can't play well and probably never will until they recognize that learning how to play takes a different bit of effort than playing itself. It is guaranteed that everybody, musically talented or not, can become better players if they learn how to play, but the steps that one takes to accomplish this determine the outcome.
Click to expand...

I have had to really slow down to learn to play some of the stuff in the Standing in the shadows of Motown book. There is soooo much syncopation!!! IMO, this book has the "good stuff" Jeff refers to for rythmic reading. After a while though I began to recognize certain rythmic figures and they became much easier. Just like reading the pitches. It'll finally click and just like you can always recognize a F# for example, then you'll be able to recognize a dotted 8th-16th note figure and others.

That book also comes with a CD so you can listen to the charts and follow along reading. I've done this a lot without my bass, or sometimes try and sing along to the rythems.
 
#113
JeffBerlin said:
Good stuff, but not the only stuff, and not really the best stuff. Why? Because these are transribed bass parts, not melodic, harmonically meaningful, and tonally significant music. They are root oriented bass parts, good for certain reading, but, not really going to do a whole lot for one's playing in the long-run.
Click to expand...

agreed. Deffinetaly not the only stuff. I used it a lot for reading rythms. Athough,think having this style of playing in your bag of tricks is important for being a versitle bass player. But... that crosses back over into the performance/art side of music rather than the educational side, which is what i think this thread is dedicated towards.

Another question Jeff-

There has been some talk of frettless bass here. what are your thoughts about using the frettless as an educational tool for ear training and pitch recognition while practicing? Clearly, on a fretted bass, if you put your finger in the right place you'll get the pitch you want, but on a frettless there is much more room for error. You have to rely on your ear more to "tell" you if your fingers are in the right place when practicing with a frettless. Could you comment on that?

And my appologies if you have already answered this or a similar question:hmm:
 
#114
TimK said:
agreed. Deffinetaly not the only stuff. I used it a lot for reading rythms. Athough,think having this style of playing in your bag of tricks is important for being a versitle bass player. But... that crosses back over into the performance/art side of music rather than the educational side, which is what i think this thread is dedicated towards.

Another question Jeff-

There has been some talk of frettless bass here. what are your thoughts about using the frettless as an educational tool for ear training and pitch recognition while practicing? Clearly, on a fretted bass, if you put your finger in the right place you'll get the pitch you want, but on a frettless there is much more room for error. You have to rely on your ear more to "tell" you if your fingers are in the right place when practicing with a frettless. Could you comment on that?

And my appologies if you have already answered this or a similar question:hmm:
Click to expand...

Nothing to apologize for.

My thinking is that a fretless bass is an instrument, and like any instrument, it needs to be played well to sound good. I don't see a need to use the fretless as a homework instrument (Personally, I am not fond of the sound as it has been over-used, not with much originality, not like the fretted bass has). I would avoid the homework element of the fretless, but if you wish to play one, then play it in tune. I practically don't know any fretless bass players who do.
 
#115
TimK said:
I have had to really slow down to learn to play some of the stuff in the Standing in the shadows of Motown book. There is soooo much syncopation!!! IMO, this book has the "good stuff" Jeff refers to for rythmic reading. After a while though I began to recognize certain rythmic figures and they became much easier. Just like reading the pitches. It'll finally click and just like you can always recognize a F# for example, then you'll be able to recognize a dotted 8th-16th note figure and others.

That book also comes with a CD so you can listen to the charts and follow along reading. I've done this a lot without my bass, or sometimes try and sing along to the rythems.
Click to expand...

Do you really want to try something interesting? Play those Jamerson tunes in 12 keys.
 
#118
JeffBerlin said:
To support this, the list of name players in the blues or rock that claim to have gone to rock or blues classes or schools and ecked out a decent enough education to acquire a professional, or secondary level of musical or business success is practically nil.
Click to expand...

Is there such thing as rock and/or blues schools? From what I know, college and university music programs are all geared towards either classical or jazz music education (not including recording and other music "technology" based disciplines). In fact, would a real music school or program be considered credible if it offered rock and blues as the curriculum base?

Private lessons are a whole different story.
 
#119
Smallmouth_Bass said:
Is there such thing as rock and/or blues schools? From what I know, college and university music programs are all geared towards either classical or jazz music education (not including recording and other music "technology" based disciplines). In fact, would a real music school or program be considered credible if it offered rock and blues as the curriculum base?

Private lessons are a whole different story.
Click to expand...

Certainly there are rock and blues classes and I advise to avoid them all. Plus, there are magazines, DVD's, events of all kinds, and internet lessons that all point to rock or blues as academically valid.

Along with this, are lessons based in credible information and these are the lessons that I suggest that one seeks out if they intend to invest in an education.
 
#120
JeffBerlin said:
Do you really want to try something interesting? Play those Jamerson tunes in 12 keys.
Click to expand...
Jeez man, I never even thought of that.

That would be amazingly tough, and definitely a good excercise.

Not sure if you're knowledgeable of Jamerson's playing or not, but he LOVED to use open strings in his songs. Like, all the time, regardless of whether they were "right" notes or not (of course they would resolve, but that's beside the point).

This would make for an awesome challenge, if only for that reason alone!

I think I'm gonna do that. You know, after my butt stops getting kicked in the original keys.:)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back