Roy Vogt
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- Sep 20, 2000
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- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
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Jeff Berlin discussing music education part 3
- Thread starter john turner
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I think one can definitely develop a good ear over time. I can transcribe stuff now that I wouldn't have been able to before. After all, there's only so many notes and chords out there...
But some musical principals can be gained from them (however elementary) so wouldn't it therefore benefit from having some lessons?
Wasn't this a discussion/debate you were having with Steve Bailey at Bass Player Live? I seem to remember watching a video on the subject.
By the way, I do agree that music should be at the base of all lessons and that jazz is the best music to study in order to do this. I am just playing devil's advocate for discussion purposes.
I've just come up with the title to your autobiography. "Hanging with Geddy Lee and Kojack". LOL!
That must be one old "little old lady". I can remember going there when I was a kid. We used to live in Brentwood, but moved to Franklin in 1979 because Brentwood was "too crowded", according to my Dad. We stopped going to the Loveless regularly about that time due to the fact that Dodson's was so close by. Speaking of places that have changed, Dodson's has changed a lot too.
Ok, ok...now we're going to anger the mods. Back to music discussion.
If you were playing music in say, a southern cafe, what kind of music would you play with your biscuits and preserves?
For your reading entertainment Jeff:
Invalid Link Removed
Next time you get to Nashville, look me up. I may not know squat about music, but I am a world class eater.
Interesting comment that you just made that there are only so many notes and chords out there.
Here's my question. I asked this once about a month ago, but I am still curious who will get the right answer:
How many notes are there in music?
Somehow this sounds like a trick question. I've read that there are twelve:
A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#
That question is too easy for me to get the right answer. So, what's the trick?
Good points! But, I am of the mind that I don't want some musical gains when I pay a teacher to improve my abilities. I want lots of improvement, lots of information. A great teacher always provides this. I know fully well that a rock or blues teacher teaches you exactly what one might learn for free. Plus, some rockers or blues players don't know much about music to teach it. But, they know about some rock and some blues. Again, these are performance-type styles of playing and don't require paying anybody to learn about.
Yes, Steve and I are absolutely on opposite sides of the fence when it comes to musical academia. I simply ignore just about anything that approachs performance or art in a classroom, believing that these things take care of themselves when one learns how to play. They have for every great player who ever acquired an artful ability to play. The question in my mind is what does one need to do to learn how to play. This is all that I stand for on this website. My answer is a narrow, to-the-point, weekly investigation of musical facts which improves knowledge of music and instrument. One can always learn the artful, rock, blues, technical, slap, tap or any other method of playing and not have to spend money on learning things that have always, historically without compromize, have been learned without an academic approach.
Well I guess I'll go with the extremely obvious answer of '12', although I imagine there's a trick (especially if things like octaves and microtones count).
Excellent! You are just about right on! Some people believe that there are 11 or 12 notes in music, but there are way more than that. This is why the concept that there are only so many notes or chords out there is a false principles. The mathematical amount of different usages of chords, melodies, rhythms and harmonies extend into the millions.
This is kind of what I thought...one doesn't need to take a class for rock, blues, or even funk since whatever good things the music has to offer can be easily transcribed.
Not microtones, but fully represented pitch. A middle C is different tha a C above it or below it. It is a totally different note which is why, the truth is, there are somethin like 90 (give or take) pitches that are usable in music. It doesn't matter if this C or that C share the same name. They still aren't the same note.
To support this, the list of name players in the blues or rock that claim to have gone to rock or blues classes or schools and ecked out a decent enough education to acquire a professional, or secondary level of musical or business success is practically nil.
It was kind of a guess! 12 would be obvious,but then there's low interval limits, implying that notes of the same name have different effects in different octaves. So you'd have to assume each one is really different. Also, I believe certain vowels can't be sung after a certain pitch, implying the same thing.
Not unlimited, but your perspective is in the right place. There are way more than the 12 (including the ocave that some seem to include), just not unlimited. But, you are thinking correctly and I like this.
One should think about an orchestra and the broad amount of different pitches that are included in some orchestral works. Further, a Bosendorfer piano extends beyond the normal 88 different keys that a piano usually has. The piano repertoir is only written within those 88 pitches, and frankly, without knowing for sure, I assume that there are compsitions that have been written to either accomodate a Bosendorfer-type piano, or else the Bosendorfer-type piano was buit to accomodate compsitions that extended beyond 88 notes.
One can also take into account that a person's ear might instantly recognize close intervals but take the same two notes an octave or more apart and someone might not instantly spot c to d when the gap is a 9th or higher.
One reason that jazz studies appeal to me is that one gets exposed to such a wide variety of note of chord/melodic combinations. How can that not be beneficial regardless of ones artful preference.
One reason that jazz studies appeal to me is that one gets exposed to such a wide variety of note of chord/melodic combinations. How can that not be beneficial regardless of ones artful preference.
Roy Vogt
Supporting Member
- Sep 20, 2000
- 4,433
- 537
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
Dodson's has changed, for sure.I We stopped going to the Loveless regularly about that time due to the fact that Dodson's was so close by. Speaking of places that have changed, Dodson's has changed a lot too.
Ok, ok...now we're going to anger the mods. Back to music discussion.
If you were playing music in say, a southern cafe, what kind of music would you play with your biscuits and preserves?
For your reading entertainment Jeff:
Invalid Link Removed
As to the question of what kind of music you'd play in a Southern Cafe, it's this:
http://www.musiccityroots.com/
Frankly, though, we're one day before Fat Tuesday and I'd rather be at the Camellia Grill and then slide over to the Maple Leaf and hear Jon Cleary and the Absolute Monster Gentlemen. And then, to the Cardiac Unit-Clear!
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