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Jeff Berlin discussing music education part 3

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#21
Billnc said:
You're so close to Philly, bass player paradise! Does Christian McBride teach?
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I don't know. I'll try to find out! If there are any other Philly players/teachers that you could recommend, that would be great. It would be about an hours' drive for me.

Years ago (late '80's) I studied with Dave LaRue for about a year before he joined the Steve Morse band. It was boot camp, and absolutely worth it. I already know the value of a good teacher, and would love to study with one again.
 
#23
Jim Campbell said:
so the 5th to the 1 is not a strong lead,or a desired lead,or do you mean stay with the whole or half step in terms of practice
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The 5 to the 1 is a strong lead for a bass line, but if you use that same vocabulary on a solo it will sound like a busy bass line more than a solo. The 7th-3rd voiceleading is for soloing primarily, although Paul Chambers uses it in his walking lines as R-7-3-R for a fast ii-V of 2 beats each (Am7/D7= A-G-F#-D)
 
#24
Hi to All! I guess many know that I feel passionately about many things and my passion can peek through when I write. I don't wish to step on toes when i state my thoughts, and even at this vast age, I can learn a few things about being more peaceful with the moderators and Talkbass members. We'll keep things on topic and try to enjoy a nice interaction together.

Kisses, hugs, and BBQ...errrrrrrrr NO BBQ.

Jeff
 
#25
Jeff, as someone who enjoys the taste of my size 13's in my mouth, I can sympathize with you.

I'm happy to glean what knowledge I can from you and the others here in my quest to become a player. I appreciate your time spent here answering so much of my drivel.

When I save the money, I want to come down and do the one week class with you.

I'll bring my metronome in case you need it. :)
 
#26
I was just listening to the song "Jeff's Funky Bass" on your myspace player.
Do you approach playing the bass differently when playing other styles? Like Rock or Funk--as opposed to Jazz?
Or is it basically the same set of skills for everything?
 
#27
chadhargis said:
My hope is that some day, however long it takes, that my bass becomes like my voice. I can just "play". Listen to a song a couple of times and say, "I got it" and go.
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The encouraging thing is that while some people are born with better ears than others, a good ear is a skill and can be developed. My dad's a drummer and he had me behind a kit jamming to vinyls from an early age, so when I picked up a bass, copying records seemed a natural thing to do(fortunately TABS didn't even occur to me then). Back then even the simplest song took ages to figure out and it would only be two years later that I discovered music theory.

It's hit and miss at first but you'll find that what used to take a long time begins to take less and less time. Theory helped me incredibly because I learned how to hear chord sequences in number/scale degrees, before I even knew what key to start looking for. This meant that I wasn't randomly searching for notes and I could relate what I was hearing to the fingerboard.

I'm in no way implying that I've got a perfect ear but it's at the point where I can hear songs and jam along(excluding jazz which will hopefully improve as I play it more). The general non-musician population mystify music and musicians because they see the end result of a lot of hard work and while there is obviously aptitude involved, people are born with talent not skill. For me that's a great thought because as I said earlier, skill can be developed. This is one reason I'm so anti-tab, there's no challenge or crawling before walking. For me, the hit and miss aspect, later coupled with theoretical understanding of what was random at first is what kicked off the ear training process.

P.s I apologize if I rambled a bit, the quote I used struck a chord I could relate to because what you desire can be achieved :)
 
#28
True. You aren't born with the ability to speak coherently. It takes time. learning the rules and building a vocabulary. It is all learned. Music, like language is also a learned skill. And after studying it long enough, you learn the rules, learn to recognize the sounds, learn to imitate the sounds, and build a vocabulary. Then you are able to speak coherently, with a musical voice.
 
#29
JeffBerlin said:
Hi to All! I guess many know that I feel passionately about many things and my passion can peek through when I write. I don't wish to step on toes when i state my thoughts, and even at this vast age, I can learn a few things about being more peaceful with the moderators and Talkbass members. We'll keep things on topic and try to enjoy a nice interaction together.

Kisses, hugs, and BBQ...errrrrrrrr NO BBQ.

Jeff
Click to expand...

I would like to once again extend my thanks to Jeff and to all who have contributed positively to this thread. We're all at various stages in our growth and for me it has been a humbling experience(I consider myself at the lower end of the food chain). I consider myself to be in good company(queue violins).

Being in South Africa means that chances of meeting my heroes or even seeing them perform are minimal, so it's great to be able to hang here and receive advice that has been truly beneficial. I've learned a great many things about how to make the learning process more efficient.
 
#30
what you desire can be achieved
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Thanks for the encouragement. I put in a couple of hours of practice last night divided between the permutation exercises I was given (which were the hardest part for me), ear training, and reading.

To me, the ear training was the simplest. At this point, I'm only working on the major scale, but I took my time and worked through all the major scales. I was able to "sing" the note accurately before playing it. What I got out of it more than the ear training is learning the fingerboard.

I've always had an "ear" for music, and singing choir and background harmony has only strengthened that. My biggest obstacle right now is physically playing, particularly my left hand. My accuracy is not good. I miss the string, or I fret one string and pluck another. I worked on this for a good hour last night, going slower and slower until I could play the exercise without error. It's as if my fingers are made of spaghetti and get tied in knots. I'll get better with time. I met my goal yesterday, and that was to get better than I was the day before.
 
#31
chadhargis said:
Thanks for the encouragement. I put in a couple of hours of practice last night divided between the permutation exercises I was given (which were the hardest part for me), ear training, and reading.

To me, the ear training was the simplest. At this point, I'm only working on the major scale, but I took my time and worked through all the major scales. I was able to "sing" the note accurately before playing it. What I got out of it more than the ear training is learning the fingerboard.

I've always had an "ear" for music, and singing choir and background harmony has only strengthened that. My biggest obstacle right now is physically playing, particularly my left hand. My accuracy is not good. I miss the string, or I fret one string and pluck another. I worked on this for a good hour last night, going slower and slower until I could play the exercise without error. It's as if my fingers are made of spaghetti and get tied in knots. I'll get better with time. I met my goal yesterday, and that was to get better than I was the day before.
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You're welcome. Jeff and some of the other guys here are much more qualified than me in giving advice but I'll mention something that you'll probably hear from them and your teacher, which is always keep your hands relaxed and try to play with a light touch. I made the mistake at one point of trying to force myself to play certain things too fast and before I was ready to. This resulted in my hands tensing up and it was just counterproductive. I totally underestimated the benefits of slow and regular practice.

I've just bought a four-string after years of playing fives and I must confess my hands feel like spaghetti too. My right hand isn't used to the bigger string spacing, so I'm going back and reviewing some things I haven't looked at in a long time.

Anyway, good luck and great to get to chat with you.
 
#32
I'm not trying to sound preachy, I may even be reading the posts wrong. but man I see myself in some of your posts!
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Preach on!

If I were still 20 years old, I could see being cocky enough to not listen to good advice, but the nice thing about starting so late in life is maturity is on my side.

You're right about "those days" when you don't play as well. It's like that with anything. Setting a goal or milestone is not about getting there instantly. It's about having a target to shoot for and taking time to give yourself an "atta boy" when you reach it.
 
#33
I totally underestimated the benefits of slow and regular practice.
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When I first started doing motorcycle track days I learned a very valuable lesson. You have to slow down to go fast. The harder you TRY to go fast, the more of your attention is focused on speed and less on proper execution (which with motorcycling can bring GREAT pain or death).

Speed is a byproduct of technique, so slowing down doesn't bother me.

Learning to play is a marathon, not a sprint. I'll just keep enjoying what I can do versus lamenting what I can't.
 
#34
chadhargis said:
Preach on!

If I were still 20 years old, I could see being cocky enough to not listen to good advice, but the nice thing about starting so late in life is maturity is on my side.

You're right about "those days" when you don't play as well. It's like that with anything. Setting a goal or milestone is not about getting there instantly. It's about having a target to shoot for and taking time to give yourself an "atta boy" when you reach it.
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Jeez, I deleted my post! Thought I contributed nothing to the thread and you were reading while I was deleteing!

You see I have students come in, one in particular yesterday. He had a reading piece, chord tones etc. Now the reading piece wasn't perfect and he got mad at himself, but he nailed the section that was the reason for the piece! We were going over a bit of arppeggios. This took a while, and he was getting mad at himself for not getting it quicker. I told him "I'm giving you this to work on for a bit every day, I want you to understand what to do this week, not master it in 15 minutes!" Here's a kid really doing the work, the lessons are intense, and he beats himself up! At the end of the day we do both laugh about it.

There's another who when things are train-wrecking laughs it off. He works hard, is serious about the work and can play really well.

The difference between the two, is one is doing the lesson (2nd), the other (1st) is trying to perform the lesson.

Both can play rock and roll well. (meaning they have a creative outlet, we don't do it in a lesson and don't have to)
 
#35
Jeez, I deleted my post! Thought I contributed nothing to the thread and you were reading while I was deleteing!
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I'm quick on the draw! :)

Comes from being in the IT biz. I'm never far away from my email. In fact, I'm practicing right now and interrupted my practice time to reply.

SHAME ON ME!! :scowl:
 
#37
chadhargis said:
Jeff, as someone who enjoys the taste of my size 13's in my mouth, I can sympathize with you.

I'm happy to glean what knowledge I can from you and the others here in my quest to become a player. I appreciate your time spent here answering so much of my drivel.

When I save the money, I want to come down and do the one week class with you.

I'll bring my metronome in case you need it. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for your support. Regarding your putting your foot in your mouth, maybe you really don't do this. You just might be like me, a guy who has an opinion and feels that you are right due to your experience in life and your subject.

I have no problem with disagreements and I hope that you guys know this about me. Frankly, I don't apologize for anything that I have said or stood except if I was directly wrong to an individual, as I seemed to be when I told Pacman to move on if he didn’t like what we wanted to talk about. I didn’t know that he ran the show. In fact, I barely know who the moderators are at all until they write something in.

The moderators here are right when they try to keep things on topic. I never read the rules of the site and just assumed that I ran the show when my name appeared at the top. My mistake!

But, my previous irritation with Pacman wasn't just born out of this event between us. I felt, and I do feel that the playing field over here on Talkbass is not even sometimes and here is why.

On Talkbass, I was directly called names, not just disagreed with, but specifically insulted directly toward me, using my name. This had gone on for a long time, even before I came here to with you guys. Does anybody remember these posts? I used to hear about them sometimes. I assume that these things happened because the moderators permitted them to happen. I don't remember hearing about a moderator deleting these comments or correctly their behavior (though it must have happened, right?) Instead, I thought that these people's insults were fine with them, since they were permitted to post in this kind of manner.

With this fresh in my mind, when we were corrected for not staying on topic but talking about BBQ for a day or so, I admit it; the imbalance between what the moderators permitted for months, and what I was asked to correct after two days deviation from topic seemed wrong to me. Can you guys see where I am coming from? I didn’t just decide to be angry for no reason!

Even though you guys have already moved past this, I admit it! I didn’t! I had a need to speak my mind, to make right a situation that I felt was unfair and unbalanced. Now that I got something off my chest, I feel that I can move forward with a new attention according to Talkbass’ rules. Thank you for letting me speak.
 
#38
It was only maybe a couple of hours talking about bbq jeff, i still read every post and im in the UK! Not much bbq'ing goes on here... And i thought there was some history with the way you were treated over here by some because i believe you used to be one of the original ask a pro's? That's why i want to again express my appreciation to you for coming back here and offering insight and to John Wentzien for bringing you to all our attention and acting as a go between with talkbass and myspace for a while. Cheers! What's coming up on the schedule for you by the way Jeff?
 
#40
aidan784 said:
It was only maybe a couple of hours talking about bbq jeff, i still read every post and im in the UK! Not much bbq'ing goes on here... And i thought there was some history with the way you were treated over here by some because i believe you used to be one of the original ask a pro's? That's why i want to again express my appreciation to you for coming back here and offering insight and to John Wentzien for bringing you to all our attention and acting as a go between with talkbass and myspace for a while. Cheers! What's coming up on the schedule for you by the way Jeff?
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If you stand for something, then somebody will be insulted by it. I have always wished that I could be more like Roy Vogt, or John Weintzien, you know, NICE!

But, I'm a middle aged crotchity guy (with a soft center. Heck! I'm a freekin' movie STEREOTYPE!) and I've learned a thing or two and one of the things that I have learned, if it works for me, it will work for you because we are the same species and we are after the same things. In music no matter the style, we all want to play and so I cut out the fat and get to the meat (Wow! I almost snuck a little BBQ in again! Sorry!)

What am I up to? I have been practicing for two solid weeks on a 44 bar bass part extracted from a Ravel piece that I am going to record on Monday with Richard Drexler. Yesterday, I played the bass part without a mistake,after two weeks of hours a day practice. The part was written by me. I took the piano part and wrote a bass part from it, using some right hand and some left hand parts to create a new part that gels perfectly with what Richard will be playing. My problem is that the darn thing doesn't sit still. It is all over the neck and it took me a long time and a lot of work to learn how to play it. The ironical thing is that when we finish recording the tune, it won't be any longer than around one minute.

P.P.S. I LOVE England and have been there many many times.
 
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